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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I know, it's to show FCS control, this can add a hundred meters during which the aircraft continues to accelerate to reach its flight speed.
     
  2. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Dude, how retarded can one be in order to link Falcon to Rafale? There is literally no relation.

    You don't know what are offsets or how they work. Do you really think GoI is retarded enough to subsidize the setting up of Falcon line in India?

    The entirety of offsets has only to do with military technology. There is no scope for offsets to be used with civilian technology. If we buy military equipment, then we only ask for military related offsets. Is Falcon a military jet?

    Dude, you have zero clue about military technology or the military procedures of India. I have never seen a single quality post from you on this forum ever. You have little to no knowledge about how this stuff works and you obviously have no inclination to learn either.

    It's very rare for me to come across one member making one ridiculous post after the other and claim the other guy is blowing hot air. In fact, I've never seen it happen.

    The Falcon is purely a commercial deal for Dassault. They are not expecting hand me downs or freebies from the govt. They are setting up a business jet line in India because they want to build in India and avoid paying custom duties on the aircraft for a competitive edge against their competitors like Gulfstream. The same reason why we have so many car companies in India.
     
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  3. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Any idea if addition of TVC can take care of this problem?

    It works for the F-35B during rolling take off, so it should definitely take care of Rafale also.
     
  4. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    The acceleration is a direct result of thrust and take off weight. Now what matters is how quickly you can reach the desired target speed and how low the target speed speed is. The deck run is one of the biggest factors as during deck run, its purely the thrust and weight at play. After launch, the FCS comes into picture.
    For MSA-N with revised Kaveri engines, I have lot of excess thrust, so I included Boundary layer control thru blown flaps and drooped ailerons for full span BLC during take off and landing and only flaps during combat. The BLC has helped me knock off 25kts from the target speed with negligible effect on acceleration due to reduction in thrust for extra engine bleed requirements and the alpha required has reduced by 2*.
    In good old Baccaneer, the BLC resulted in reducing take off speed by 41 knots.
     
  5. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    It wont helpmuch for Rafale-M as the TVConly at tail is of little help in providing extra lift.
     
  6. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    But it helps the F-35B during short take off, right?

    8:25 onwards

     
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  7. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Yes it helps, but combined with the fan at the front
     
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  8. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Right, but F-35B's system allows near MTOW take off from 100m or so without ramp. I was referring to TVC aiding take off from 200m away on a carrier deck along with a ramp.

    Saab advertised this capability for Sea Gripen. They pointed out that TVC aids take off.

    [​IMG]

    So the EPE engines with TVC allows them to lift 14-16T from the deck. They need 15% less deck space based on their advertisement.
     
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  9. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    I understand the argument with a flat deck, not with a ramp, because there is no need of anything to help to rotate : it's the ramp that rotate the plane.

    But I'm absolutely not a specialist. Just a poor guy a little educated in mechanical engineering.
     
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  10. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    You are absolutely correct here. On ground, the TVC helps rotate the aircraft sooner and that helps it to get off early as part of engine thrust now contributes to the wing thrust.
     
  11. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    IMG-20171016-WA0029.jpg

    @Picdelamirand-oil
    @halloweene
    @BON PLAN @vstol jockey

    This is what I have always said when I said many tech will flow to LCA from Rafale.

    If We chose it wisely, we can get many present specs from F3R into LCA Mk1A and let F4/4.2 develop itself further up.

    Mica EM/IR, meteor scalp all compatible systems will be available for LCA..

    Imagine the firepower..
     
  12. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    More than anything else, I am more interested in M2K system architecture like MPDU making its way in LCA MK1A with Paj-FA pod integrated as internal EW suite.
     
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  13. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    > that means both antenna + back end processor from thales ?

    > Integration of Israeli missiles on MK1A is the same payment paid for Rafale customization ? since same radar

    > radome size of Tejas was discussed to be more than rafale , will the no. of elements remain same or increase / decrease ?

    > Where are we going to use UTTAM ?

    So finally lca MK1 40 samples with Elta 2052 + MMR combo , MK1A 80 samples with Thales RBE AESA

    missiles and bombs will be combination of Israeli , French & Indian
     
  14. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    i hope similar news about Kaveri engine Jv also comes out soon..
    not sure how many years it ll take to certify it fly in tejas MK1A..

    judging by the urgency of thales radar , engine also should nt be far
     
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  15. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    I see no evidence that it is the same than RBE2AA. But why not?
     
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