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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Of course. The first GTG deal had no offsets. Parrikar introduced offsets, which includes cooperation on Kaveri.
     
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  2. Vijyes

    Vijyes BANNED BANNED

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    Then are you asserting that Modi was against Parrikar? Modi wanted to push for 36 rafales for fun? I can't understand your type of thinking at all. Modi forced Parrikar to resign from Goa to become defence minister as it was very difficult for Modi to handle things in defence.
     
  3. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    You are the one unable to understand. First read up on the politics of Goa. Modi didn't send him anywhere. The BJP's coalition leaders in Goa said that they will join BJP only if Parrikar was made CM. That's the level of trust he has within political circles.

    Modi's Rafale deal was a quick deal, IAF was supposed to get 36 old Rafales in 2-3 years flat. Parrikar stepped in, switched the model to the new one, added 50% offsets to it. Before that, there were no offsets for Rafale.
     
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  4. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    This aspect of the deal was given lot of negative publicity at that time when Parrikar insisted on it. If you recall, even the members from France on this forum were highly critical of Parrikar at that time. Even the presstitutes called him a road block. But today what ever we are getting is thanks for his vision. Now suddenly everyone is rushing to take the credit but few recall the days when this whole game was changed by Parrikar.
    he is the man who linked the delivery of offsets to future orders including the ones under MII. His game was, Tie down future orders to delivery of offsets and reap the benefits.
    How many here recall that in case of T-90 deal, we still do not have TOT and we still do not have anything on ground in terms of offsets.
     
  5. Vijyes

    Vijyes BANNED BANNED

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    Who told you that Modi wanted quick 36 rafales? What was the urgency Modi had? Is it that you hate Modi?
     
  6. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Had it not been for him, we would have got another idiotic deal.

    He's done the same thing with FGFA and with the US.
     
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  7. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Lol. Elsewhere I was called Modi bhakt.

    Dude, forget it, you are unable to understand. You haven't followed the program.
     
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  8. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    He forced RR to deliver offsets for Hawk engine deal in the form of engine for AMCA. This nation will always be indebted to him for the new direction he gave to defense deals in India. These deals have now become benchmarks for other deals.
     
  9. Vijyes

    Vijyes BANNED BANNED

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    Ok, I am not understanding you as I have not followed the discussion before the deal was signed. Maybe Modi simply wanted to take quick decisions without understanding properly. Parrikar then changed the stance to ToT. It may be perfectly possible. I do appreciate Parrikar for his extraordinary vision. But, blaming Modi is not really meaningful as he eventually did support Parrikar. Anyways, case closed as I have no understanding
     
  10. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Good effort, but I guess you see that a lot has changed for India as well as the EU now, which is why you suggested the wrong things.

    The fact that Parrikar's move out has changed nothing wrt the governments SE MMRCA tender, surprised even many Indians here on the forum, simply because the Strategic Partnership Model as such was completely underestimated!

    So even if Thales and Co would had been ready to help LCA in whatever form (which they could had done for sooooo many years, if they really wanted):
    [​IMG]
    it wouldn't had changed anything on the fact that the NDA government wants the SPM now.

    That means the only chance to counter the SE fighter was not to help LCA anymore, but to get Rafale back into the game NOW and not in future!
    Either Dassault needed to understand what mess they created, accept the Indian tender rules and offer a reasonable price, or try to be part of the new tender under the SPM.
    Sadly Dassault was not able to understand the potential the Indian deal had and since no credible changes seem to have happened in their offer, they are sidelined now and only can hope to get a side way to bag another deal.

    All India was asking for since 2007, is basically to get the Indo-French relationship to the level you showed as well, just that we wanted it it till 2017 and not from 2025 onwards.
    Joint carrier development, joint Rafale upgrades, joint weapon and tech developments, participation in the Rafale production for exports..., was all possible for years and it was easy to get it all, since the US political power didn't played a role in MMRCA. Served on a platter, but still...:frown:

    And where are we now?

    - The new Indian government is pro political deals and highly pro US
    - most joint upgrade possibilities, are now gone, because we went with customized Israeli stuff instead
    - we have a new tender without Rafale, but for the same MMRCA requirement
    - and most competitors have made more progress with their upgrades, which doesn't give Rafale even the technological edge anymore

    So hoping for joint future projects, beyond 2025, while the situation today is so sad, won't make much difference (not to say that the French priority now will be the EU anyway, besides different requirements and time lines).
     
  11. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Oh they understood it perfectly. They understood the potential that HAL's clause where it wanted not to be held responsible in any way for their part of the work was a commercial suicide for them, and they understood also that it went far above and beyond the terms of the tender where each company was responsible for their part of the work.
     
  12. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Modi took the decision to go for Rafale because SFC needed it, under Doval's insistence. And SFC is under Modi's office, not Parrikar's. That's why the 36 aircraft were for immediate delivery.

    But Parrikar stepped in, converted it into a proper defence deal added offsets to it and made it overall the best possible deal India has ever had. this delayed the deal by a few years, but we are gonna get a newer model because of that.

    During all this time, MMRCA was still going on. So Parrikar used the GTG as an excuse to stop the MMRCA which was going nowhere.

    I am not blaming Modi for anything. Modi did the right thing, and Parrikar followed up brilliantly.
     
  13. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    SFC is a cock and bull story.

    What is so special about Rafale that the strenghened MKI with BrahMos just wouldn't do?

    Especially when it required spending €8 billions.
     
  14. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    And they understand it so well that at the end they win a bid for 36 from Merignac (with at least a follow on order, it's for me clear). Not so bad.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  15. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Rafale has automatic terrain following capability, advanced sensors, sensor fusion, superior performance, superior maintenance, all of which gives the Rafale a superior penetration capability.

    We want to use the Rafale to drop gravity nukes, not nuke-tipped Brahmos. I don't think we ever plan on using nuke-tipped Brahmos anyway.
     

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