Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    8,328
    Likes Received:
    6,264
    Country Flag:
    France
    Why do you always belittle what the French do by saying that it does not matter because it's part of the offsets? Of course 50% of offsets is a gigantic level and can only be explained because it is a strategy to achieve a complete MII. And that's what we're doing by being ahead of the plans that were accepted at the time of signing the contract.
     
    Itachi, Bali78, Shekhar Singh and 2 others like this.
  2. Ved Mishra

    Ved Mishra Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    955
    Likes Received:
    251
    Country Flag:
    India
    In the Indian context i would say Rafales will be just great even based at shores if not on AC replacing the Jaguars in maritime strike role. Why the CNS is in France by the way?
     
  3. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,499
    Likes Received:
    1,111
    Country Flag:
    Afghanistan
    Shekhar Singh and PARIKRAMA like this.
  4. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,206
    Likes Received:
    6,312
    We are talking about the assembly of the 36 jets in India.
     
    PARIKRAMA likes this.
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,206
    Likes Received:
    6,312
    We need carrier aircraft. Whatever we choose for the carriers will be operated on shore also.

    If the modifications required for the carrier is cheap enough, only then will Rafale-M be realistic.
     
    Shekhar Singh and PARIKRAMA like this.
  6. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,206
    Likes Received:
    6,312
    The 72 Rafales will be a massive upgrade even if our squadron strength is low.

    The 83 LCA Mk1As with AESA alone will be a pretty significant upgrade.
     
    Bali78, Shekhar Singh, zebra7 and 2 others like this.
  7. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    3,461
    Because that's a fact and Dassault is not doing anything beyond of what is the required from them.
    Secondly, because I am happy to see Dassault complying to rules and obligations for once. If they had done that before, we would had seen the first Indian Rafale of 126, delivered this year.

    Also I am very clear about distinguishing between "France" and Dassault!
    We have good relations to Airbus, Thales, Safran, french MBDA and I have high hopes for DCNS winning the P75I, but it's Dassault that is the problem and that created the mess.

    We gave Dassault a choice, MMRCA gets cancelled and we will buy 36 only, with a 50% offset clause. Take it or leave it and Dassault took it, because it was the best deal they got so far from any customer.
    So Dassault is doing only the minimum that was necessary to get this deal and not something special like you are trying to make it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
  8. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    8,328
    Likes Received:
    6,264
    Country Flag:
    France
    I think that 24 Rafale without offset clause is a better deal that 36 Rafale with a 50% offset clause. So no it was not the best deal they got so far from any customer.
     
    Itachi, Bali78, BON PLAN and 3 others like this.
  9. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    3,461
    No we are not, I explained that MII doesn't translate into a production line, to which you had replied. Nor am I taking unnamed sources that claim things for GoI very seriously, which still wouldn't mean anything to Dassault, because the production line must be financially viable.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
  10. Ved Mishra

    Ved Mishra Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    955
    Likes Received:
    251
    Country Flag:
    India
  11. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    8,328
    Likes Received:
    6,264
    Country Flag:
    France
    Doesn't matter, the 8 of December is not very far.
     
  12. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    3,461
    They have no hurry to replace M2K9 and the longer they wait, the more options will come up for them. EF gets more interesting and sooner or later the B60s will need upgrades, which is a chance to negotiate with the US for F35 again. Not to mention that Russia is focusing on the Gulf countries too.
    And since we know that the F3R won't have GaN and that the F4 won't have a 90kN M88, the UAE requirements (except for radar modes) can't be fulfilled either.
     
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,206
    Likes Received:
    6,312
    You are confusing the offsets MII for the first tranche which is only for spares and MII for the second tranche which can easily include a small assembly unit for kits. This can easily progress to full scale production with a third tranche of 36 jets.
     
    Bali78, zebra7 and PARIKRAMA like this.
  14. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Captain IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,562
    Likes Received:
    7,575
    Country Flag:
    India
    UAE can be supplied with Safransied Kaveri with 65/98 thrust and M88-2 core..

    That should be available soon for testing.

    And ideally with DRAL components , UAE can look into 60 orders within next 12-15 months with a lead time of another 36 months.. implying 4-5 years from now or closer to 2022+ for delivery..

    Thus there is a scope that they might wait out a further 2 years to seek a matured Safranised Kaveri 65/98Kn and F4 version easily.
     
  15. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    3,461
    You have repeatedly shown, that you have a flawed understanding about offsets and keep ignoring official facts or what several members here tried to explain you now, so I'm not going to discuss again.

    Also there is no 2nd or 3rd tranche, only an option requirement for IAF and the naval tender.
     

Share This Page