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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Shekhar Singh and PARIKRAMA like this.
  2. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Captain IDF NewBie

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  3. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  4. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  5. chandramohan parashar

    chandramohan parashar IDF NewBie

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    what about news behind scam of rafale deal congress is saying gov. is paying 952cr more on each aircraft, please if anyone have some information than share
     
  6. Pundrick

    Pundrick Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Nothing material, this is just election specific allegation, will fade away the moment results are declared. You'll have to go through post 2012 negotiation for more insight in MMRCA and why it was scrapped by NDA govt.

    Follow this thread and read by yourself and you'll get much better idea about how the cost escalation and urgent need of fighters along with availability rate for IAF has forced govt to scrap the MMRCA and buy 36 Rafale directly from Dassault.
     
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  7. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Just dont believe those idiots. In 2011, US$ was 44 rupee, in 2016 it was 67 rupees. Plus the original deal for 126 aircraft had only the price for the aircraft and and did not involve the price for setting up bases, configuration changes specific to India and weapons. If you remove these add ons, the price is USD95 million which translates to about 630 crores. Now do the maths from 2011 rupee value and 2016 rupee value. Using Rupee value of 2011, Rafale fly away cost now is INR418 crores and these idiots in congress are claiming that they had negotiated it at a lower price of 520+ crores per aircraft. what is lower 520+ or 418.
     
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  8. Butter Chicken

    Butter Chicken Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Reliance was Tier-1 supplier even in 2012 during MMRCA
     
  9. chandramohan parashar

    chandramohan parashar IDF NewBie

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    thanks
     
  10. chandramohan parashar

    chandramohan parashar IDF NewBie

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    thanks
     
  11. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    someone sent me the latest invention of Congress- ek aisi machine jismain ek taraf say aloo daalo toh doosri taraf say sona nikalta hai.
    We ll even better machine was developed by his forefathers called- Congress. kuch bhi mat dalo, phir bhi sona barasta hai. yehi hee nahin gadha bhi 1.3 crore Indians kaa my baap ban sakta hai.
     
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  12. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Captain IDF NewBie

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    France Rejects Congress Rafale Charge, Reliance Defence Threatens to Sue
    The Congress has alleged that Prime Minister Narendra Modi's government has caused an "insurmountable loss" of taxpayers' money in signing the deal for 36 Rafale aircraft from France for Rs. 58,000 crores (7.8 billion Euros). The opposition party alleged at a press conference that the cost of each aircraft is three times more than what the previous UPA government it led had negotiated with France.
    All India | Written by Vishnu Som | Updated: November 15, 2017 19:56 IST

    France has categorically rejected allegations made by the Congress party that the Narendra Modi government has negotiated an overpriced deal with French company Dassault to supply the Indian Air Force with 36 state-of-the-art Rafale fighter jets, while the Anil Ambani-led Reliance Defence Limited has threatened to sue the opposition party if it does not retract its charge that it was unfairly picked to be the French firm's partner.


    "This fighter jet has been selected for its outstanding performance and competitive price. It was selected through a fully transparent and competitive process," French diplomatic sources said, describing the Congress allegations as "a domestic political matter" that they would not like to enter.

    The Congress has alleged that Prime Minister Narendra Modi's government has caused an "insurmountable loss" of taxpayers' money in signing the deal for 36 Rafale aircraft from France for Rs. 58,000 crores (7.8 billion Euros). The opposition party alleged at a press conference that the cost of each aircraft is three times more than what the previous UPA government it led had negotiated with France.

    The Congress has also asked why the government "promoted the interests of one industrial group, i.e Reliance Defence Limited, which has led to the company tying up and entering into a joint venture with Dassault Aviation worth Rs. 30,000 crores?"


    Responding to the allegations, Reliance Defence has said, "Government policy issued on 24 June 2016 allows for 49% FDI in the Defence Sector under the automatic route, without any prior approval. No approvals from the Union Cabinet or CCS were required for the formation of the aforesaid Joint Venture company under the automatic route." The company said its reserves the right to take legal action against the Congress if the allegations against it are not dropped.

    Several of the allegations raised by the Congress to question the deal are not new. For more than a year, critics have suggested that India has got a raw deal on the Rafale jets, which will form the cutting edge of the Indian Air Force's fighter fleet once the aircraft start being inducted.

    While it is true that the unit price of each aircraft is more than what had earlier been negotiated, several aspects of the deal that have sent the cost up have not been stated by the Congress in its latest allegations.

    For one, while the Rafale had emerged as the lowest bidder (Rs. 54,000 crores) in an international tender in 2012, the final deal could never be closed out by the UPA government. By the time the BJP-led government came to power in 2014, the deal was completely deadlocked with Dassault refusing to certify key components of the jet which were to be built by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited unless a series of conditions were met.

    Also, the cost of the overall deal would have gone up since it was calculated that manpower required to assemble each jet was nearly three times higher in India than it was in France.With no deal around the corner and with successive Air Chiefs telling the government that India's air defence would be seriously affected without the jets being inducted, PM Modi had announced an off-the-shelf purchase from France during a visit to Paris in April 2015.

    "France has always been a reliable supplier for India from jet fighters to submarines," the Prime Minister said.

    When the deal for Rafales was finally signed, they came at 2016 prices, significantly higher than what was on offer four years earlier. Apart from the aircraft, the price also includes several key items, including state of the art weaponry, spares support for seven years and India-specific customisation of the jet that the French Air Force and Navy operate.

    Under this deal, the Indian Air Force Rafales will come equipped with the Meteor, the world's most advanced Beyond Visual Range Air to Air Missile which can hit targets further out than any comparable missile at the moment. India is acquiring the SCALP cruise missile which can hit ground targets more than 500 km away and will be customised to eventually deploy a variant of India's BrahMos anti-ship cruise missile.

    Software codes and patches will be provided so that future integration of new weapons systems take place in India. An Israeli helmet mounted display will be integrated into the jet.


    Significantly for the Indian Air Force, which has faced enormous problems with the reliability of its Sukhoi-30 fighters, the French will guarantee the performance of the Rafale and provide complete logistics support to ensure that 75 per cent of the Rafale fleet will be battle-worthy when required. The IAF has struggled to get over 50 per cent mission availability for its Sukhoi fighters.

    Nine Indian Air Force personnel including three pilots will be trained in France with the IAF also gaining access to French Air Force Rafales for training purposes.

    In order to reduce costs, the government capped the European inflation indices to 3.5 per cent which means that if inflation goes down, so will the cost of the overall deal, the payout for which happens in tranches.

    The first Rafale jets are to enter service with the Indian Air Force from 2019 onwards and Dassault has been negotiating with the government of India for a deal of 36 more jets which would form two more squadrons.

    https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/fra...atens-to-sue-1775877?pfrom=home-lateststories

    Any one recall when i kept on saying codes.. brahmos .. Indian weapon integration (like SAAW)

    @vstol jockey @halloweene @Picdelamirand-oil @Abingdonboy
     
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  13. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    january or april 2019 btw.
     
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  14. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    And do you recall me telling you that its not a deal for 36 but over 80 due to two bases having been selected by IAF.
     
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  15. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    This was the biggest problem in dealing with the F-22 and has now been surmounted.

    Now, all you need is 'enough' radar power, which can be made available through better technologies or a different platform.

    Having a lower RCS only enhances active cancellation. The lower your RCS, the better is active cancellation. Even active cancellation involves the radar equation.

    If you assume active cancellation reduces your RCS by 10dBsm on an aircraft that is already at -10dBsm, like Rafale, then with active cancellation you have achieved -20dBsm. There must be an exponential increase in the capability of active cancellation if your base RCS is already low.

    So if you place an active cancellation system in the F-22, it may achieve much lower RCS levels than it does now. So further reducing your base RCS will most definitely help.

    The thing about active cancellation is, you can't deal with it by removing clutter rejection. So the problem of detection is still there. In case of the F-22, your radar is still getting a return, however small, but in case of Rafale, you are not getting a return at all, it's been eliminated, at least ideally.

    So while the Gripen's radar will detect the F-22 at 20-40Km, the same radar may not see the Rafale at all.

    This can at least help achieve parity for Rafale vis-a-vis the F-22 when it comes to radar detection. Even if there's a slight disadvantage for Rafale, it is still very, very good because the Rafale carries other sensor technologies. And the F-22 is reduced to using conventional tactics against the Rafale while the Rafale continues to have many more options for defeating the F-22.
     

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