Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    3,462
    As @Pundrick stated, mostly election talk, only the 2nd part of the PM making a G2G deal without the necessary MoD procedures might have value, but the costs were higher because the order was so much lower. It certainly was an extremely bad deal for India, but you can't make a scam out of it based on costs.
     
    X_Killer likes this.
  2. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    3,462
    :facepalm: It's bad enough that you fail to properly distinguish between both, but just because you have no argument on why Dassault / France itself wants proper stealth design for the future, doesn't mean you need to make up things.

    Stealth design doesn't add to active cancellation, since as I explained, both work in opposing directions!

    - stealth design to divert incoming radar signals
    - active cancellation to change returning radar signals
     
  3. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,499
    Likes Received:
    1,111
    Country Flag:
    Afghanistan
    They are complementary, because it's easier to cancel a smaller signal than a big one. That's why you won't see active cancellation used on a tanker or an AEW platform. For the Rafale, the idea was to eliminate radar returns as much as possible without having to sacrifice the aerodynamic formula of the Rafale A tech demonstrator, and use electronic warfare to address the "hot spots".
     
    sunstersun likes this.
  4. CNL-PN-AA

    CNL-PN-AA 2nd Lieutant MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    524
    Country Flag:
    France
    http://www.livemint.com/Politics/H5...nefit-defence-industry-not-just-one-comp.html


    Rafale deal will benefit defence industry, not just one company: French diplomat
    Dassault was selected through a transparent process, has fully complied with rules, says French diplomat
    Elizabeth Roche
    [​IMG]
    A file photo of a Rafale fighter jet. The Congress has alleged that a ‘huge scam’ was brewing in the NDA government over the deal to purchase 36 Rafale fighter jets from France. Photo: Reuters

    New Delhi: Dassault Aviation SA’s pact with India to sell 36 Rafale medium-range multi-role fighter aircraft would benefit a number of companies which are part of the country’s defence industry and not just one single company, as charged by India’s key opposition Congress party, a French diplomat said on Wednesday.

    Dassault had been selected through a fully transparent procedure, the diplomat said on condition of anonymity. The company has fully complied with India’s rules and regulations while making its pitch to sell its fighter aircraft to India, the diplomat said.

    The comments were in response to charges levelled by the Congress party, which on Tuesday said that a “huge scam” was brewing in the Bharatiya Janata Party-led National Democratic Alliance government over the deal to purchase 36 Rafale fighter jets from France. The aircraft were being bought at an “inflated price,” Congress party spokesman Randeep Surjewala said, according to a PTI report.

    “I am not going to enter into domestic political matters and I strongly believe that this is a domestic political matter,” said the French diplomat cited above.

    “It is not benefitting one single player, certainly not,” said the diplomat. “What I can say about the Rafale is that this omni-role fighter jet has been selected for its outstanding performance and for its competitive price and it’s been selected after a fully transparent procedure, fully compliant with the rules and regulations of this country,” he said.



    According to the diplomat, the contract to buy 36 aircraft had in it an unusual clause which said that Dassault and its partners would invest as much as 50% of the cost of the deal in the Indian defence industry under the so-called offsets clause.

    This share of 50% would “contribute very positively to the development of the defence industry in India,” he said; these offsets are not only being implemented by Dassault alone but by associated French companies as well. This in turn meant that many Indian companies—large and small—would be benefitting from the pact and not just one company, the diplomat said.

    According to the Congress party’s Surjewala, when it was in government in 2012, it had negotiated with the French to acquire 126 aircraft for $10.2 billion with the transfer of technology. It was decided that 18 aircraft would come in a flyaway condition while the remaining 108 would be manufactured in India by the state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.

    The Narendra Modi-led NDA government that took office in 2014 cancelled that deal in 2015 and decided to buy 36 aircraft at $8.7 billion without the transfer of technology provision.

    According to Surjewala, private firm Reliance Defence Ltd then tied up with Dassault Aviation for a joint venture for defence production in India on 3 October 2016, PTI reported. Reliance Defence has denied any wrongdoing in the matter, calling the allegations “baseless and unfounded,” according to PTI.



    The ruling BJP rubbished the Congress allegations, claiming it was intended to “divert attention” as the opposition party’s leaders faced the prospect of being questioned over alleged irregularities related to the purchase of Augusta Westland helicopters when that party was in power.

    “Modi government is known for integrity and all its actions are above board, while the Congress party is synonymous with sleaze, corruption and crony capitalism,” BJP spokesman G.V.L. Narasimha Rao told PTI.

    Reliance Group companies have sued HT Media Ltd, Mint’s publisher, and nine others in the Bombay high court over a 2 October 2014 front-page story that they have disputed. HT Media is contesting the case.
     
    DAC O DAC, PARIKRAMA, Grevion and 3 others like this.
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,206
    Likes Received:
    6,312
    :lol:

    Sorry, this stuff is way too technical for you.
     
    Shekhar Singh likes this.
  6. mugundhan

    mugundhan 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    105
    Likes Received:
    127
    Country Flag:
    India
    Do you know any study IRST detection range vs targets ???
     
  7. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    3,462
    Good to see you speechless, because then you spread less misinformations. There is no shame to say nothing, instead of making up things.
     
  8. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,499
    Likes Received:
    1,111
    Country Flag:
    Afghanistan
    Keep in mind that IRST also depends on the weather. Dust and humidity in the air will absorb infrared light.

    You can find this thesis on the subject if you're interested: http://www.control.isy.liu.se/student/exjobb/xfiles/1909.pdf

    Here's the abstract, load the file to read the rest:
     
    Agent_47, Gessler and mugundhan like this.
  9. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,206
    Likes Received:
    6,312
    It's funny how you use your ignorance as a weapon.
     
    Shekhar Singh likes this.
  10. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Captain IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,562
    Likes Received:
    7,575
    Country Flag:
    India
    JYLD will bring in 12 Rafale deal for Egypt soon to conclusion..

    it would be good to see him on 17-18 th . he brings in lots of agreements and discussions leading to the Prez Macron visit
     
    Lion of Rajputana and Gessler like this.
  11. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    8,328
    Likes Received:
    6,264
    Country Flag:
    France
    Twelve new Rafale in Egypt: Bercy no longer blocks negotiations

    According to our information, Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian has brought the new French proposal to Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sissi.


    According to concordant sources, Bercy no longer blocks the continuation of negotiations on a new twelve Rafale contract in Egypt. Cairo asked Paris for payment facilities in the image of the previous contracts signed between Cairo and the manufacturers of French armaments. "It was not conceivable for Egypt that France changes the terms of payment," says one at the Tribune.

    During the visit of the three-day Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al- Sissi to Paris in October, Emmanuel Macron explained to his host that he wanted to continue the relationship of trust between Egypt and France, notably in the framework of the strategic partnership between the two countries relaunched in 2015. That's what the Egyptian president was looking for in Paris. For two years, Egypt has launched the modernization of its armed forces with the support of France. Paris is committed to providing new equipment, particularly to the Air Force (24 Rafale, a military telecom satellite) and the Navy (four Gowind corvettes, one FREMM, two BPCs). This represented nearly seven billion euros (6.83 billion) contracts for the French arms industry between 2014 and 2016.

    A contract on track
    As a result, the Élysée asked Bercy to stop blocking the negotiations to sell the Dassault Aviation fighter. According to our information, it was Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian who brought the new French proposal to Sissi in Sharm el-Sheikh, where a youth forum was being held. The two men maintain very good relations of trust.

    The release of payment facilities by the Ministry of Finance is not synonymous with a contract signed tomorrow. Negotiations can resume in a calm atmosphere. Sources interviewed by La Tribune estimated that there was, however, a good chance of success for the signing of a contract in a few weeks.

    Egypt gas producer
    The Rafale was no exception. Bercy blocked all contracts on Egypt whether military or civil. Why? It is a problem of outstanding on this country. With the important contracts recently signed between the two countries, the envelope allocated by Bercy to Bpifrance (formerly COFACE) on this country is fully used, had it been specified at La Tribune. And Bercy did not want to add an envelope estimating that the country risk could deteriorate. However, according to a source interviewed by La Tribune, there was no default of payment from Egypt.

    If Emmanuel Macron has resolved the point of friction between the two countries, it is because he had guarantees. Egypt is expected to grow by 6% annually this year. Cairo has money to pay the bills. In particular, Egypt will be able to rely on gas production in the Mediterranean from the end of this year. In 2015, the Italian energy company ENI discovered on behalf of Egypt a huge offshore gas field in its territorial waters off Port Said (Zohr deposit). Enough to satisfy domestic demand for several decades, to return to the export and thus to benefit from new foreign exchange earnings.

    https://translate.google.fr/transla...plus-les-negociations-758088.html&prev=search
     
  12. DAC O DAC

    DAC O DAC FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    40
    Country Flag:
    France
    You forgot the SCALF englo french initiative.
    You forgot the project to buit a 5th gen fighter with germany.
    You forgot a possible indian french initiative around AMCA.

    Sure Rafale is costly to release bombs on a ISIS pick up in the desert. But a F16 is also a costly tool to do that.

    Spectra? it's a fixed idea for you. You do not understand anything so you denigrate.
     
  13. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Captain IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,562
    Likes Received:
    7,575
    Country Flag:
    India
    We have negotiated better deal in Rafale contract, says IAF Chief

    Speaking to media persons, Dhanoa said,''There is no controversy. What is the controversy I don't understand? It is not overpriced. The government has negotiated a very good deal. ''I think we have negotiated a better deal in the Rafale contract than what we did in MMRCA (Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft),'' Dhanoa said.

    Read more at: https://www.oneindia.com/india/there-is-no-controversy-on-rafale-deal-says-iaf-chief-2584126.html
     
    Bali78, Sathya, Pundrick and 7 others like this.
  14. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2016
    Messages:
    874
    Likes Received:
    1,087
    Country Flag:
    India
    These Congressi Bas #***# are simply Jealous of Modi
    and will do anything and everything to Pull him Down

    Even indulge in Anti national activities for their Political goals
     
    Bali78, madmax613, Ironhide and 2 others like this.
  15. Jamy

    Jamy FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2016
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    26
    Country Flag:
    India
    It should be a much bigger conspiracy than it appears, What "TRANSFORMED" during the meeting between the Chinese Envoy and Raul Vinci no one knows. Should be the Chinese ploy to derail the modernization drive of our armed forces using the greedy Scamsters.
     

Share This Page