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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    The same can be said about the PM and the Rafale deal as well.
    It's anti national to not provide IAF with the required numbers of MMRCAs and instead make a PR deal and sell it as fast tracking and a gap filler. Neither are the 36 Rafales coming any faster, nor are they filling any gaps if no follow deal for the full requirement was fixed.

    So the attack on the Rafale deal in the way it was done now, won't hold it's own, because it's aimed on costs and the Ambani relations, not on support of IAF to protect the nation.
     
  2. Pundrick

    Pundrick Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    It was always better to buy 36 Rafale urgently rather than playing the bargaining game like an aunty buying vegetables in the market. Extra Rafales will be considered, as promised by MoD, once it proves itself against the IAF doctrine and holds its ground against the likes of Su MKIs and Indian Radars. The first 2 years of operations will be crucial for further increase in Rafale numbers.

    INC's allegation as I said earlier is only election specific bcoz the Hardik sex CD surfaced and INC is slowly loosing the plot in Gujarat, I am not saying this bcoz I am BJP supporter, but INC is slowly loosing its ground which it thought it has gained few months back. The cost escalation and Reliance relations is absurd as Dassault was free to collaborate with any pvt players in India and cost escalated due to requirement changes, inflation, reduced numbers,rupee-dollar exchange,etc it is still much better deal when we compare it with Qatar and Egypt.

    If INC is saying Reliance has no experience in aerospace, then so did Mahindra , Tata and others. Though I am not a big fan of Dassault-Reliance, but INC is desperate to exploit the anti-incumbency in Gujarat to save their dynasty.
     
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  3. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Fighter sized radar are unlikely to get that kind of power without massive technological breakthroughs.

    Radar equation is given by

    [​IMG]

    All else remaining same, radar power will need to increase by 16 times (fourth root of 16 = 2) to double range. Effectively it is beyond the scope of everyone flying except very massive AWACS.
    Active cancellation may work against MSA's but is effectively rendered null by LPI AESA. Rafale = Dead

    Gripen would be dead before it came close to 20-40 km. That's the whole point.

    Besides the claims of clutter rejection was for GlobalEye not Gripen which uses Italian radar for now. I guess it would require massive computational power to do that which is for now beyond fighter-sized aircraft.
     
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  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    If you need 10 red tomatos and the seller on the market has just green once and asks for a too high price, you don't buy 3 of them anyway, because that's neither the color, nor the number you needed. So if that seller can't provide you with what you want, you move on to the next one and buy the right tomatos for the right price.

    That's why the government either should had tried to get 126 x Rafales with a licence production, or none and then moved on to the L2 or with the SE MMRCA tender.
    Only that way we could have got the numbers and the industrial advantages we wanted and IAF would not be forced to buy 2 different medium class fighters. But the PR chance to make a big deal on a foreign trip was too big too miss, than doing the right thing with the interests of IAF and our defence industry in mind.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
  5. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Exactly. This is what my point has been always and just few days back, over drinks, I gave it back nicely to some of my friends in IN.
     
  6. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    The problem is that you asked blue tomatos, and we only have red and green one, and nobody else have blue tomatos.
     
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  7. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    The government seems to think the US have them, so your loss might be their win as sad as it is.
     
  8. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    For the moment even the RFI, which is very preliminar step in the process of acquisition, was not send. It's during negociation at the end of the process that you realise that the tomatos are blue. :rafale:
     
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  9. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    You are Totally wrong here

    The earlier MMRCA contract negotiations had reached a Dead end

    For nearly one Year the Current Government tried to salvage this stupid MMRCA deal
    which was all about pampering HAL

    The French arguement was correct that without Management Control
    they cannot Guarentee the Quality of HAL planes

    So the "Leader " in Modi took the Bold decision of scrapping the earlier deal
    get a new one

    The Govt is aware of IAF requirements

    Now if we had given all the 126 plane contract in the First stage itself
    the French would not have been interested in any Offsets

    The importance of the Present deal lies in Offsets
    whether it is LCA ; Kaveri ; Nuclear Submarines etc etc

    Follow on and repeat Orders for RAFALE are a Given ; it is no big deal
     
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  10. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    True, but you are the one that is always pointing to the time delay in India, so you should have learned to be patient by now.
    The important point however is, that there are no negotiations with Dassault for the missing 90 fighters for IAF. Which means GoI still haven't changed their mind wrt Rafale.
     
  11. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The DRAL factory will Not make Tomato Ketchup :cheesy:
    It will make Rafale jets

    P.S : I Googled for Blue tomatoes ; they do exist :biggthumpup:
     
  12. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    He took a decision for a deal during his foreign visit, while MMRCA was still under negotiation by MoD. Taking a decision to look good in front of the media, was good for him, but not for IAF nor for our industry!

    What are you talking about? The MMRCA tender had a 50% offset deal too, just that we would have got critical techs of Rafale, as part of the licence production deal and not just unnecessary stuff, that doesn't get our industry much.

    - RBE 2 AESA and parts of SPECTRA licence produced at BEL
    - FSO and cockpit displays licence produced at Samtel
    - as halloween confirmed up to 100% of the M88 at HAL and other Indian industry partner's
    - wings and other airframe parts at Reliance
    ...

    All that and more was already confirmed and compare that to what we get now, because of the bold decision our leader made!
     
  13. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    On the contrary there are such negociation as it was reported by Parikrama and by a very serious internal source to me.
     
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  14. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Not really, there are negotiations on 36 x Rafales for IAF, because that's the minimum required to fill the 2 bases. The rest of the medium requirement is planned for SE's.
     

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