Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    3,462
    Thanks but no thanks, we neither need to please everyone, nor should we make ourselves over dependent on the US. IN most likely has no option, but IAF need to keep it's distance, especially with the old F16 on offer.
     
    GuardianRED likes this.
  2. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    8,328
    Likes Received:
    6,264
    Country Flag:
    France
    It's not a distraction it's a fact. An US report says that there is a quality problem in HAL it's a fact.
    Dassault is independant. Not independant of the US independant of everybody. But knowing that the US have made such a report, they made their own inquiry, and the result was the same. So there is a new fact : two independant aircraft companies believe that there is a quality problem with HAL. It's just a confirmation.
     
  3. W@rwolf

    W@rwolf FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2016
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    160
    Country Flag:
    India
    If Rafales were assembled/manufactured in India by HAL under MMRCA and began to break down, it would lead to negative publicity against the jets that could affect its future sales and the reputation of Dassault.

    If F-16/FA-18 SH are made under SP with HAL, and again ends up breaking down, they don't give a shit as they're not worried about any more future orders, and also any negative criticism against the jet and manufacturer can be stymied by pointing out that other airforces have been operating them for decades without any such problems, which would indicate the problem therefore lies with the Indians.

    Its as simple as that. We would end up paying a lot for PBL and buying spares from US once the PBL period is over (if they're still being produced over there that is).
     
  4. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,229
    Likes Received:
    1,250
    Country Flag:
    India
    question still remains,what would you use a needle or a sword to stitch a patch in a shirt.

    What is amusing with your earlier answer was that, you don't know whether it is a a balloon or a F-16. You are a way too off the mark from the real world scenario, to confront a F-16 in an indian space, for interception, you don't need to face it front to front, rather LCA equipped with IRST sensor, and a R73 from 6 o clock, is more than enough to kill, the intruder, which won't even know, what hit him.
     
  5. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,229
    Likes Received:
    1,250
    Country Flag:
    India
    Good article
     
  6. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    2,968
    Likes Received:
    1,461
    Country Flag:
    France
    An interessant news, even coming from US or Russia or North Korea, remains interessant.
    France want to remain independant, but US was, is and will be an ally.
     
    DAC O DAC likes this.
  7. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    2,968
    Likes Received:
    1,461
    Country Flag:
    France
  8. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    1,601
    Country Flag:
    India
    see post#7438
     
  9. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,229
    Likes Received:
    1,250
    Country Flag:
    India
    Standard procedure of an OEM's quality control. You have a list of approved supplier for a particular part, and if you internal QA registered fault then after a particular number , it will be automatically be in blacklist, then again that particular supplier will have to go through the procedure to become an approved supplier. Even a PHILIPS 5 watt lamp/ Bulb came in blacklist, when I was working in CG and waited for Surya supplier for 5 days to clear the shipment. Funny isn't it, and does not prove PHILIPS is producing Substandard product. Hal is producing top quality composite parts at compatible parts for various OEMs and such article, negates image of HAL and but wrong impression.

    Already mentioned several times issue of Dassault with HAL is that Dassault wants HAL to buy tools, equipments and raw material from Dassault and it's approved vendors, while HAL wants Global tender. They are OK with the private player with zero experience, since they will agree with that, thus SAAB could partner with Kalyani, which haven't produce a single bolt for aerospace. Rest so called aviation experts will keep on pasting articles written by so called expert authors. Baki Lage Raho.
     
  10. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2016
    Messages:
    806
    Likes Received:
    794
    Country Flag:
    India

    Philips bulbs are nowadays made in China and imported , why that ?
    Even I / shops felt Philips quality gone down.
    I am impressed with quality / cost of crompton greaves.
     
    zebra7 likes this.
  11. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,229
    Likes Received:
    1,250
    Country Flag:
    India
    If an OEM follow the procedure, the quality will always be off top notch. I think that's where the auditor role becomes important, and now we have service provider for clearing the audit such as ISO xxxx.
     
    GuardianRED likes this.
  12. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2016
    Messages:
    806
    Likes Received:
    794
    Country Flag:
    India
    So all Iso cleared products, QA won't be top notch ?
     
  13. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,229
    Likes Received:
    1,250
    Country Flag:
    India
    If you are only talking about the the QA. Then in each steps QA should be assured, first incoming material to ensure the purchased parts., Material quality is assured, then in manufacturing floor, specified procedure is followed by the production, with testo and rejection of the once, that fails to the specified specification, then final testing when the product is finished. But also very important is the calibration, and maintainable of the equipments you use for the testing and measurement. By passing audit means that the regular or the periodic tests for such equipment and the calibration work should be real one rather than producing document, with one day checklist. QA should be strict, and no relaxation should be given over it, from the pressure of the production to ramp up the production due to dil every pressure. In India we have many flaws, and to be competitive in the international arena, we have be comparable with them in the the thinking and the procedure. Many of times there is a flaw in the storage, and transportation technique, and chalta hai mentality have to be thrown away. Too much engineering is bad for the production but chalta hai is also not good, and zero inventory production like in SONY is not possible in India, but those inventory assets if could be brought to half could boost many industries and that would I involves quality in the basic infrastructure in transportation, electricity, to ensure a reliable supply chain.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
    Angel Eyes, Sathya and Bloom 17 like this.
  14. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    8,328
    Likes Received:
    6,264
    Country Flag:
    France
    Yes but Dassault provider are certified, if HAL wants global tender, they have to certified the winner and that will cost more than choosing the Dassault provider.
     
  15. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2016
    Messages:
    806
    Likes Received:
    794
    Country Flag:
    India

    finally everything comes down to individuals.. collection of individuals ..good leader.. and government support.
     

Share This Page