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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. W@rwolf

    W@rwolf FULL MEMBER

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    So i guess by your logic, Tejas would be made to sit out during a full-scale war ?? As it's a high threat level scenario and faced with multiple 'targets' trying to enter Indian airspace?

    Don't twist logic to suit your narrative. The LCA class fighters would be first responders to an unidentified threat, be it peace-time or war-time. They'll be as capable as a Su-30MKI or Rafale in this scenario especially over an area that has ground-based radar coverage.

    The LCA was designed to fill exactly this role, to fly CAP and DCA mission over friendly territory while providing limited CAS capability.
     
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  2. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Can you speculate on the delivery schedule?
     
  3. Masterhunter

    Masterhunter FULL MEMBER

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    This is where u are wrong,
    IAF follow 20 plane/sqn for Russian fighters, whether it's su30 or mig 29 due to their low availability.
    For western jets like mirage, they follow 18/sqn.
    Earlier I read they even agreed to 16/sqn for rafale due to minimum 75% availability
     
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  4. Masterhunter

    Masterhunter FULL MEMBER

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    Same thing dear,
    We need 200 LCA even in its current form of Mk1A.
    And if we get about 200 rafale, we don't need Another SEF.
    SEF is only required just in case LCA mk1A fails to achieve what is asked or get too much delayed.
     
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  5. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Begining 3 years after contract signature
    • For the moment 2 Planes/month is oK to fulfill Dassault obligations
    • It is possible to increase Mérignac assembly line up to 3/months
    • So we can procure 1 more plane by month in 3 years.
    But the second will have to wait the end of current Egypt contrat to begin construction for delivery 3 years later.
     
  6. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Again, the availability rate has nothing to do with the number of fighters in 1 squadron, but with complete fleet. Also all MMRCA squads were for 16 single seat and 2 twin seat, no matter if western or Russian MMRCAs.

    You are contradicting yourself. Yes IF we would get 200 Rafales, we wouldn't need another type of MMRCA anymore.
    But LCA has no relation to MMRCA, so the SE MMRCA requirement comes, BECAUSE we only buy 36 to 72 Rafales!
     
  7. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Who say India didn't ask EF a new proposal?

    All that maybe just because IAF found (through intensives field tests) the Rafale the best, and Modi thought it was easier to deal with a single country for ToT than with four.
     
  8. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    The former DM Parrikar for example, who said that you can't talk to the L2, when you are in negotiations with the L1, that's against the laws. But the minute it was clear that Dassault is not complying to the RFP, Antony, Jaitley or Parrikar should had rejected the Dassault bid and then could have asked the L2 for an offer.
     
  9. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    The system of L1 itself is greatly flawed. What kind of negotiations can you have when there is just one party to negotiate with? the procedure until bofors deal was to short list 2-3 suitable candidates and negotiate with them all which resulted in lowering of price due to competition. But MMRCA deal was from the very beginning was loaded in favour of Rafale due to the bribes which were assured to Italian waitress thru her sisters. Once rafale was chosen as L1, they started dictating terms and this theory of HAL being found unfit or the cost escalation as a result of larger manhours needed for making the jet in India was not considered while deciding the L1. It was very clear that 108 aircraft were to be produced in India. So the total cost shud have included the cost of making these additional jets in India. This means there was a substantial cost difference between what was used to arrive at L1 and what finally was found to be the real cost. this means that procedure for determining the L1 itself was greatly flawed. By declaring an L1, we allowed ourselves to be blackmailed by DA.
     
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  10. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Okay, so Dassault is willing to increase production rate again. Then I don't see such a big problem. Egypt only wants 3/year and Qatar wants 9/year.

    The only question is how soon can the Merignac line expand to 3/month.
     
  11. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Hopefully we will have a better system in place. Switching to GTG is a start.
     
  12. ashkum2278

    ashkum2278 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    All LCA needs is an excellent AESA Radar with good range of detection+ IRST which can be used on the hard point freed from carrying jammer + METEOR/ Another good BVR/WVR. We can use Israeli Latest Gen escort jammers, so that each LCA would not need to be equipped with jammers. This would free a hard point incase it is not equipped with internal jammers. So that it can put to full use its low rcs and try to take on interceptor role from standoff ranges. With no MAWS this i think is the best tactic we can follow for air interdiction. Till mk2 is developed.
     
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  13. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Don't try to re write the story.

    The mother of all bid wasn't inked because the seller and the purchaser never reached a common position. And at that time DA needed urgently an export deal, so DA was in a weak situation... You must copy that to understand that DA is not all white, but not all black either (without export deal DA had nothing to gain to break the deal)..

    The buyer had 4 years to stop the bargaining so as to discuss with L2. He didn't do it. There are some explanation to that fact I think... And it was not DA that forced Indian top brass not to cease the process.


    should had... must have.... STOP ! Rafale is purchased and more are to come.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
  14. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    between 2 and 3 years I think.
     
  15. InfoWarrior

    InfoWarrior Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Found these related to Rafale deal,
    Modi Should Explain How Rafale Deal Went From ‘95% Complete’ to Zero in Two Weeks
    By Ravi Nair on 22/11/2017
    Days before the PM replaced the deal with one that would eventually exclude HAL, the Dassault CEO had said ‘contract finalisation and signature could come very soon.’ So what changed?
    https://thewire.in/198840/rafale-deal-modi-must-use-opportunity-clear-air-transparent/


    As Rafale agreement is inked, many concerns remain
    By Ajai Shukla

    Business Standard, 23rd Sept 16
    http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2016/09/as-rafale-agreement-is-inked-many.html

    Dassault: Work on Rafale Sale to India 95% Complete
    Friday, March 27, 2015 by Indiandefense News
    http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2015/03/dassault-work-on-rafale-sale-to-india.html

    Explainer: Questions the Modi Government Needs to Answer on the Rafale Fighter Jet Purchase
    By Ajoy Ashirwad Mahaprashasta on 17/11/2017
    https://thewire.in/197682/rafale-fighter-jet-deal-reliance-bjp-modi/

    @Hellfire What do you think ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
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