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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Hold on please...

    AFAIK In india if you got anything suspicious about anything the very first step is to be taken is filing a FIR/legal application against the suspicious matter or party but in the case of Rafale deal, they put up the whole matter between the public just to create a rant. Right now, they (congress) are using it as a political tool and I can assure you guys that the whole matter will be washed off within few days after gujrat elections. If they really found anything suspicious in the case than they will not take it lightly. Right now, you can't find any news about the so called scam in the media on regular basis.

    We have indian judiciary to settle these kind of issues as it always did and doing in many cases like AW, coal , cwg, Vyapam etc etc.
     
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  2. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Total assembly time takes at least 24 months. (French source: "Un cycle de vingt-quatre mois est nécessaire pour fabriquer un Rafale." means "A 24-month cycle is necessary to build a Rafale.") You can add up to one year for certain long-lead items needed to start production, which is why delivery is given for three years after contract signature.

    Production of the first Indian Rafales has started. In two years, they will have been delivered, and the rest of the order will follow. Here's a rough delivery schedule for the next three years:

    2018: [​IMG]x3 [​IMG]x10 [​IMG]x11
    2019: [​IMG]x11 [​IMG]x11
    2020: [​IMG]x9 [​IMG]x2 [​IMG]x11
     
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  3. jouy31

    jouy31 FULL MEMBER

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    Frankly, that may be your opinion. But it is unsubstantiated. There is no proof to support the fact that the customization in this G to G deal is the same as in the original response from Dassault. You have told us on frequent occasions that you do not believe in reports from unnamed sources. Unless you bring us proof that the customization is the same in the two deals, there is no reason for us to believe you on this issue. Sorry.
     
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  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    If you had quoted the next sentence too, you would have known that we already have a proof for customization, the Mirage 2000 upgrade!

    Both, Rafale and Mirage get the same Israeli HMS, LDP, SPICE 2000 PGM. We know that both get custom data links and IFF systems, to be compatible to the IAF fleet.

    The important point here is, that IAF and not the government decides about the operational requirements of the fighter and necessary upgrades or customizations!
    It doesn't matter if the Rafale was bought through G2G or the MMRCA tender route, the customization remains largely the same. The only real difference is Meteor, which however is based on the fact, that Rafale F3+ was proposed during MMRCA and due to the delays, now the F3R is available with Meteor.

    The only difference the government made, was the performance based support guarantee. That was not available before and introduced by the government with the DPP 2016.

    P.S. No need for sorrys, you don't have to believe me. So you did the right thing to question it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
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  5. Golden_Rule

    Golden_Rule Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    This carrot and stick game between SE and TE will be played till end-2018 or early-2019 in order to get Kaveri built, tested and certified as per prior agreement between India and France, and to DRDO's satisfaction with several variants of Kaveri in order to generate thrust up to 140kN somewhere close to range of F110-GE-132. Once accomplished, Rafale will be rewarded with up to 100+ MII Rafales to be built by Reliance-Dassult JV Reliance Aerostructure Ltd. For this Rafale need to make Safranized Kaveri a reality before the 1st term of Modi is over.
     
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  6. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I doubt congress would have concluded the Rafale MMRCA even if it had the third term.

    If Dassault didn't comply , L2 would would have taken more time and money to fully know its status.

    Rafale is the only MMRCA wired to deliver Nukes, so Rafale was the only choice for SFC .

    Rafale was bought by PM himself , he is personal willing to take responsibility for it. I doubt it will be bad deal..

    MMRCA was missed , it's a collective failure of Dassault & Congress.

    Now BJP is getting the most that's possible with flexible approach.Instead of sticking to a point and wasting time.

    And it's pursuing both options A&B at the same time without getting itself cornered .
     
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  7. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Good. So whether Egypt is the first to order or not shouldn't matter.

    I asked because I would like India to get the follow on 36 without any problems of delivery. Especially if the UAE ends up ordering before India does.
     
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  8. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    during this time, Squad number is falling.....

    It's a kind of indo-indian bashing....
     
  9. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    and SCALP. (and exocet ?)
    Indian M2000 are not equipped with, and willn't.
     
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  10. screambowl

    screambowl IDF NewBie

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    So after 15 years of negotiation We are getting only 36 Rafales and some limited TOT. Nothing related with engines either.
     
  11. W@rwolf

    W@rwolf FULL MEMBER

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    Just because the M2K-I and Rafales have some of the same subsystems, doesn't mean that the cost for integrating the same can be ignored. The costs would have been added to the MMRCA deal no matter what, apart from the unit flyaway costs. Since the second part of the negotiations failed, we'll never be able to know how much they asked for the modifications.

    But the new deal do have more customization than the previous offer, which include better hot/cold and high altitude performance, PBL, towed decoy and additional weapons.
     
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  12. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    That is a great write up. A nice way to force the GoI to divulge the contours of what no one in public domain is aware of - why was this decision, a 'political' one, taken?

    Most would love to know what is the addendum to this agreement that is not being made public (and should not be made public either).

    :)
     
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  13. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    How about what is not available in public domain? I would suggest wait and watch on that my friend. There is more to the story than what is apparent. And it is that 'more' which is classified and most would like to know :)
     
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  14. Pundrick

    Pundrick Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Everyone knows that Euro fighter was almost $ 15-25 million more expensive and was rejected by IAF on ground of higher price and too many vendors. Why this so called "anonymous source" does not mention that the EF's price was way too higher than Rafale and IAF selected Rafale looking at all the aspects from logistics, strategic, technological and weapons point of view. Though MMRCA was almost cancelled and IAF was in urgent need of medium combat then MoD/Modi opted for initial numbers to fill the gap and left the options to buy extras if budget and time permits.

    In short IAF didn't had capital budget to buy Rafale in hundreds of numbers, else it would have jeopardized AMCA and FGFA, which are anyway delayed.
     
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  15. Pundrick

    Pundrick Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Yes I am tilted towards BJP and I was tilted towards INC in 2007-11 period as well, that doesn't make any difference.

    I know they supported N-deal, their public protest was just to find cons to look concerned to people, they are obliged as opposition. Even in today's scenario INC would support such deal bcoz both this parties, instead of having corrupt background, will always keep the national requirement at front.

    This deal was signed in 2015 and INC didn't protest, they knew that it is required for the national security, but somehow when they are running out of issues in elections they have picked the subject which draws everybody's attention i.e. defense.
     
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