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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    Same was the case in additional C-17 orders.

    Boeing made it public a long while ago that the line will close soon, please place orders if you want ASAP. But we dragged our feet on the additional +3 order...in the end we only had the 1 whitetail C-17 left to buy.

    Now, we are dragging our feet on that 1 plane too.

    https://theprint.in/2017/11/08/india-verge-losing-last-available-c-17-globemaster-red-tape/

    In the end, I won't be surprised if we get 0 additional aircraft (over the initial 10 ordered).
     
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  2. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    We all know the incident in Libya when Rafale got picked up by an old Russian radar and saved itself by resorting to traditional jamming modes. so two things got demolished in that incident which have now been even accepted by our learned members from France, AC does not help Rafale escape detection, it does not prevent it from being fired at but the SPECTRA jammers do help in preventing the missiles from hitting Rafale.
    Now do you know the kind of missile guidance that was used by that missile system and how easy it was to jam that way of guidance? what are the other ways of guidance and the kind of seekers and blast radius and when all these can be put together to make a formidable cocktail to make a missile system which will have much higher ability to kill? just read about the long range missiles of S-400 complex.
     
  3. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    For anykind of jamming to succeed, you need the jammer and the receiver to be jammed to face each other, the receiver shud be in the receive mode. if any of these conditions is not fulfilled, there will be no Jamming.
    In Case of LPI radar, shooting out just one pulse on one frequency and switching off thereafter, creates a Jam proof system. Please do not get fooled by AC, its as big a lie as the Relaxed static stability sold by Americans.
     
  4. lexa

    lexa FULL MEMBER

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    Yes this is an ideal way against jamming :) Sure if the receiver switched off it can't be jammed, but it can't be recieve reflected signal ie it's not functional as radar.
    LPI radar uses some techniques for cloaking the signal: noise like modulation, low power pulses with changing frequency with proper processing of reflected signal etc.
    The LPI can be jammed by classical brute force jamming (in wide range of freqs) even easier bcz the low-power signal is harder to extract from noise. LPI Radar is more difficult to jam by
    smart jammer (such AC ) bcz the LPI signal is need to be processed by jammer but it's not impossible.
     
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  5. lexa

    lexa FULL MEMBER

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    hmm proof please?
     
  6. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Barrage Jamming is one of the ways to defeat LPI but what happen to the jammer? can it be called discrete jamming? The Jamming platform will be known to the world after that. Where do you resort to barrage jamming?
    It was posted here along with a link from French senate report.
     
  7. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    That radar was no threat to the Rafale by any standards.

    If you consider the fact that the Spectra on that Rafale was being used as a traditional jammer, then it will make sense why the radar managed to lock on.

    Can you remember even one incident where an aircraft could perform close air support missions in enemy territory on the very first day without SEAD/DEAD?
     
  8. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    The thing about LPI radars is they don't get enough data to cue a missile. LPI is particularly good for detection. For more complex information, you will have to go active completely.
     
  9. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    French were the first to strike in Libya and knew that they need to silence AA batteries. They were performing SEAD only. Now, if you get picked up and locked on during SEAD mission, its just too bad for the overhyped AC of Rafale. The SA-2 uses command guidance which utilises separate radars for target acquisition, target tracking and missile guidance. And they can be very easily jammed by using just base jamming or ultra fast sweep jamming. Yet rafale had to resort to deception jamming mode.
    the advantage of LPI is that a fleet of networked platforms can use their radars at different times and create a dynamic battle picture with a time base. It is like dead reckoning thereafter. And very precise targeting data can be generated to effectively fire active homing missiles.
     
  10. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I already explain you That Rafale was not picked up, the old russian radar picked up the false targets generated by SPECTRA. And Lybian SAM try to shot these false targets since Rafale was out of Range. :sarcastic:
     
  11. lexa

    lexa FULL MEMBER

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    It's depends from tactics and jammers capability -- more jammers with more power emission from long range gives you bingo . Yes it's not applicated for many cases. Anyway i just say
    that LPI is not total undetectable and not total unjammable.
    Sorry i can't find such your message maybe you give me the link ?
     
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  12. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Yes Bro, you did say that. But the fact is why wud Rafale create a false target if it can't be detected? just read, I stated rafale resorted to deception jamming which is RGPO and VGPO. This jamming is done only when you have been detected.
     
  13. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    The problem with stealth (whatever is structural or electronic) is that even if it work you never are sure that you are not detected. The tactic in Lybia was to hide the Rafale and to create false targets to be sure that there is no more SAM before destruction of the site. It's just the safer way, and it will not be used in a more complex situation.
     
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  14. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    And you very correctly said that once you are being pinged, you can never be sure whether you are actually painting on the screen of the enemy. However modern super computing has allowed to decipher the radar pulse in such a manner that you can make out the distance at which a radar will pick you up thru the use of geolocation. So, if you know the location of the radar, from its signature you will be able to calculate its minimum resolution and also maximum range.
     
  15. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    AFAIK, the first set of Rafales that entered Libyan airspace were performing CAS. They destroyed 4 enemy tanks.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-British-forces-fire-missiles-at-Gaddafi.html
    French combat jets were the first to attack on Saturday as they destroyed four tanks at 4.45pm

    There was no mention about the exact situation. All it said was a Rafale was locked on and the missile missed by a large distance.

    We know for a fact that Rafale's stealth can be turned on and off whenever necessary, it's electronic stealth after all.

    You can't use LPI data to cue missiles. You need a constant stream of energy hitting the aircraft so you can carefully watch its every move. Or you have to move really close and hope the missile seeker will pick up the Rafale.
     

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