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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    You are jumping in and making it another 'evil' DPSU discussion. All these won't make HAL incapable of making rafale or absorb this overrated technology transfer. Which was the argument. HAL is the only indian company who have done it before which its a historical fact.

    Blame Dassult because they derailed the MMRCA by giving wrong 'man hour' numbers and refusing to partner HAL (Which the original tender makes abundantly clear). Now making a non existent company partner so that they can have half shares.

    Yes, Now crap on russians now that you have so many option. While they where doing what any self serving businessmen would do just like DA.

    That is that arrogant french speaking. Better to be a LM than a Dassult.
     
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  2. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Read carefully before answering. I write "easier to built". Not more or less advanced.
     
  3. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Just compare what the chinese do with one single T10 from Ukraine and what HAL is doing with all the drawings of Su30 in hands....
     
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  4. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    The complexity is to have the functionnality of an air brake without it !
    The compexity is to have a air intake without mobile part able to reach mach 2 !

    If the compelxity of a plane is in a movable probe, TVC, repositionning radar and twin tail, you understand nothing to what a modern plane is (ie those are 1960 th tech).
     
  5. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Want to see a last gen blisk made by HAL...
     
  6. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    I wanted to address the both of you.

    As it stands today, HAL is the best aerospace company in India. Others can't even come close today.

    But HAL's potential to be even better is inferior to the potential of the private industry. Dassault wants to make use of that potential.

    Anyway, Dassault is far, far ahead compared to LM or any other company. By all rights, had Dassault followed more conventional methods of production, the cost of producing the Rafale would have been prohibitively more expensive. The fact that HAL didn't want to adopt Dassault's procedures pushed the cost of production of each jet by way too much.

    HAL's flaws as a DPSU is to blame for that because they have way too many employees. Dassault's methods is to use as few employees as possible for the same work. So both their ideals were compromised from the start. For example, Dassault uses 36 people for the assembly of 11 Rafales while HAL uses hundreds of employees.

    The less employees and more automation you use, the better is the quality of the aircraft. That's why private industry is in a far better position to adopt Dassault's techniques.

    There's one more thing. Any company that follows Dassault's processes and techniques will have a huge advantage over companies that use LM's or Boeing's processes and techniques. Once Rafale MII is initiated, DRAL's future in India will pretty much be assured since they will be able to outbid their competition.
     
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  7. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Rafale makers invite French SMEs to set up shop in India
    Published November 30, 2017 | By admin SOURCE: THE HINDU

    [​IMG]

    After securing a deal to sell 36 Rafale fighters jets to India, and not withstanding the political brouhaha that has erupted in its wake, Dassault Aviation is looking to attract and house an organic ecosystem of French SMEs in India. The aim is to secure its component manufacturing needs here. France’s Centre Val de Loire Regional Council and Aerocentre invited the companies behind the development of the Rafale fighter jet, Dassault Aviation, Safran and Thales — which together make up Rafale International — to showcase and present to the SMEs in the region, how they are helping set up an industrial aeronautical sector in India. Some 50-odd small businesses in France were present on the occasion. The companies spoke on how they would be contributing to ‘Make in India’ as part of the Rafale offset programme, even as they presented the many opportunities available for French SMEs to invest and set up production facilities in India. Defining a roadmap for the French SMEs to help them join the Dassault Aviation, Safran and Thales global supply chain, the companies said the initiative would help bolster the industrial ecosystem already under way in India, and would benefit both French and Indian partners. Meantime, components for the Dassault Falcon 2000s are also to be made in India from the first quarter of next year, when the joint venture Dassault Reliance Aerospace manufacturing facility opens up in Mihan, Nagpur. After the facility gains expertise in manufacturing components for the Falcon 2000 jets, it could also expand capabilities to include final assembly of Rafale fighters.

    http://idrw.org/rafale-makers-invite-french-smes-to-set-up-shop-in-india/#more-155367 .
     
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  8. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    How is that different ? LCA have more composite content than Rafale. With your logic LCA should be harder to build. Which HAL already do.

    What a logic.:facepalm: Look at chinese how good they reverse engineered!. You want to make Su-30 what? What is wrong with current version? Respecting IP laws is an bad thing now? Make some sense.
     
  9. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Which remains to be nonsense. Even using more composites, makes the production easier than using different metal parts instead. The Rafale is the more advanced fighter in terms of materials and avionics, but the MKI is clearly more complicated to produce, because of the mentioned differences. That why you claim's about HAL are baseless.
     
  10. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Have you considered the HAL role in the development of the ADA.

    Russians, like the former USSR are very suspicious of their tech. transfer, thus they only gives the manufacturing technical drawing. In short in decades of manufacturing MIGs and Sukhoi, HAL didn't gain in the development knowledge than with the GNAT and Jaguar or AJT trainer.
     
  11. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Your argument would ve valid only if LCA was worldwide known as perfectly potent and meeting all the native objectivs. Unfortunately it is not (maybe not Yet ! ...).

    (what a paradox : it contain a very high % of composite and is 1 ton heavier than intended)
     
  12. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    :fie::fighting1::crazy:
     
  13. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Good, you really should stop talking when you have none arguments.
     
  14. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    I questioned your argument. Which was 'HAL is incapable to build Rafale and it failed to absorb ToT'. Which you are yet to prove.

    Again genius, ADA was the developer not HAL.

    French 50 cent army ran out of words now?
     
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  15. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Complicated =/= Sophisticated.
     

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