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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    To explain it further, an interceptor can have highly swept wing for high alpha and lower cruise drag but will suffer in terms of payload while a multirole aircraft will need lesser sweep wings to allow it to carry heavy loads which will mean higher cruise drag.
     
  2. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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  3. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Captain IDF NewBie

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  4. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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  5. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    And I had been telling you for last two years that there is option for additional 18 which may even rise to 90 direct from French line. These 54 aircraft are for IAF only. IN has to first make a case for acquiring these aircraft followed by its acceptance by DAC. After that there will be short negotiations for placing follow-on orders for IN. The process for acquiring these ac for IN has not even started yet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2016
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  6. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Captain IDF NewBie

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    But tell me one thing vstol, i forsee no chance of sparing the present Mig29K for the IAC 1 which is scheduled to be handed over to IN on Dec 06,2018.
    Assuming 2 years of testing also by Dec 2020 or say by 2021 it should be able to start the deck operation practice at least.

    So if we are not ordering more Mig29K then where is the Rafale M orders? Bcz even Merignac line is now more or less occupied till 2021 middle.

    BTW i also head that our orders are getting executed by 2021 1st Qtr with max deliveries between 36-54 months and also couple of aircraft before 36 months as well.

    This implies we have a short window for Rafale M if they are to go into IAC 1. Unless its clear that IAC1 will have Mig29K only. Moreover LCA Navy is no where close to carrier deployment. heck even its not cleared our basic test program and issues which are best known to you already.
     
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  7. Ved Mishra

    Ved Mishra Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I think some part of offsets will be utilised for establishing infrastructure may be with HAL or any private co. for licenced production of Rafale under MII. Once the orders increase to greater than 100 the cost per jet will come down. More interesting will be offsets implementation and that would be real benefit. Until the same is clearly spelt out and implemented the actual value of the deal can not be understood.
     
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  8. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    IMHO, French will deliver these 36 much faster than what most people expect. This will allow them to give the taste of this ac to IAF sqns in DACTS much earlier and force IAF to go for options.
    You are correct that we do not have adequate ac to equip both Vikky and IAC-1 with full fighter compliment. Initially IN was going to order another batch of 45 Mig-29Ks to make it a total of 90 but stopped once IAF selected Rafale.
     
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  9. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Captain IDF NewBie

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    Yes quicker delivery schedule is a reality

    That is basically more or less clear bcz when you order 8 twin seaters its clearly adequate for minimum 4 squadrons implying
    16 single+ 2 twin = 18 x 4 = 72 birds.
    or if its 36+54 = 90 then
    (16 single + 2 twin seaters ) x 5 squadrons (assuming Rafale M is similarly at 18/squadron which can be of course lesser as well but can be 16 also)
    Again such a permutation gives you roughly 90 from Merignac and implies easily double that amount under MII to justify the Make program really with investments already made.


    But the IAC1? Will this sport Rafale M or not? Thats the million dollar question.. Logic says Yes it should.. IN would love it.. But then are we going ahead with it?

    Bcz whe we do, we are just adding IAC 1 order+ IAC1 follow on Cochin Shipyard new ACC order and IAC2 order as well. Thats roughly 110+ Rafale Ms.. Again this justifies MII line requirement and pushes the overall figure of Rafales in IAF and IN towards the bigger number of 200-255-250-300 type ranges.

    What you feel about it
     
  10. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    Considering the realities of actual war against competent opponents, any serious fighter should be capable of flying from roads at the very least, which means that moderate wing sweep is the best choice for overall performance even for an air superiority fighter. That is the main reason why I went with wing sweep of 50* in my fighter proposal.

    To quote the relevant part:
    https://defenseissues.wordpress.com/2014/08/02/air-superiority-fighter-proposal-6/
     
  11. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Consider also the training of your pilots: The French will train only 3 pilots, after that these pilot will have to train the others, and so on. At one moment they will need 8 twin seats.
     
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  12. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    If an option was an obligation, it would not be called an option, it would be called an obligation.
     
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  13. TickTickIndian

    TickTickIndian BANNED BANNED

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    @vstol jockey "You nailed it. France will be out of armament biz if they resorted to kill switch. But our exp with France during Kargil war gives us the confidence that we can Trust France completely.
    The deal will be signed on Friday which is my "Old Monk Evening". I will drink myself nuts and if I post any bullshit, @Mods pls delete that."

    France is colonized by French Rothschild. Rothschild doesn't care about France. What happens when French Rothschild takes control of France??
     
  14. Big Pic

    Big Pic Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The only member of this family presents in France is producing wine (Philippe de, btw good product). It's more in UK and its infamous bank that they colonized (also the BREXIT gang). Better off with their overpriced plane? I understand your frustration. Have a good day.
     
  15. TickTickIndian

    TickTickIndian BANNED BANNED

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    I didn't say Typhoon was an alternative. Indirectly I meant rejecting all offers from America, Britain and France for the same reason. And developing Tejas further through ToT available instead of buying more up from western europe or USA.
     

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