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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Somedude's answered that.

    To add to what he said, the escort may need more fuel in some cases, if it is expected to fight near the target, and then stay with the bombers until they reach safer regions.
     
  2. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    What's the greatest penetration range likely though? I debate with the likes of LRSO, X-51 and HTV-2 whether the fighter escort is indeed essential for penetration anyway.
     
  3. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    That's my view as well. I can also see deep penetration not being that essential with new weapons like LRSO, X-51 and HTV-2 though. I don't think the game plan would be to fly a bomber all the way across China to its West end. I can think of much easier and less risky options for prosecuting such a target, especially with the next generation of weapons.
     
  4. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    BTW BMD, could you cite your numbers assessing the SFC of EJ200 is way better than M-88 one? Because mine seem different. BTW, engines are also judged on maintenance, ecceleration, time to start etc. (and of course in various conditions of altitude, heat, humidity etc).

    Google translate that, interesting reading.

    http://www.air-defense.net/forum/topic/13875-m88-vs-ej-200/
     
  5. Picard

    Picard Lt. Colonel RESEARCHER

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    Yes, that is another reason why I went with 50* sweep.

    Tires will help mitigate impact on the airframe, but will not by themselves reduce takeoff / landing speeds. Large, low-pressure tires also reduce ground pressure, which helps with open-field basing. Some aircraft even used tracks or skids in effort to reduce ground pressure as much as possible.

    That is true, because most fighters today are designed for similar purposes and have similar overall characteristics (e.g. fuel fraction, wetted area etc.), so larger fighters will indeed have longer range. But what I wrote concerned F-15A, which had 27% fuel fraction, while F-16A had 31%, as well as significantly superior aerodynamic design.
     
    Techy likes this.
  6. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    The SFC is marginally better but MTBF and maintenance is much better.

    http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-re...of-the-ej200-engine-in-service-154344265.html

    EJ200 engine has been designed with a special focus on reliability and maintenance costs. The engine systems' reliability, together with the engine components' long life technology and the intelligent life management system allow for a maximum availability and minimum operating costs.

    EJ200 also performs better in hot air.

    http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspot.co.uk/p/eurofighter-typhoon.html

     
  7. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    It has begun

    The congress has stated that

    He congress finalised rafale deal at range 758 crore per rafale

    Now modi cancelled that deal and signed a new one costing us 1600 crore per rafale

    An escalation of 123%
     
  8. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    It could be as close as the target itself, probably less than 100Km. Regardless, the PCA will have to match the B-21. And we are talking about some incredibly high range here.
     
  9. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    The Rafale now costs 600 Cr. They don't have an argument.
     
  10. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    What was it in USD terms? use your brain sometime. In 2011 $ vs INR was 44/-. In 2013 it slid to 54/- and today it is 67/-. It has been nearly steady since UPA-2 went out of power leaving $ @ 66/-.
    You do not know the aircraft to be made under MII. The final price of Rafale to India will be lower than 600 crore/ac even at today' $ rate.
     
  11. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Captain IDF NewBie

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    Between 540-560 Crs .. Thats the most realistic expectation... with focus more towards 540 figure
    Provided we move on and execute MII and get the benefit of offset implementation from this deal.
     
  12. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    No doubt EJ200 is an excellent engine. Do you have numbers for maintenance in TACs? (MTBF is sensed to be reduced to 0 on Rafale due to autodiagnostics, at least they say so).
     
  13. TickTickIndian

    TickTickIndian BANNED BANNED

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    Yes, that is the bright light at the end of the tunnel :)
     
  14. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    MTBF reduced to zero would hardly be a good thing. There are numbers somewhere, this matter actually came up elsewhere and the EJ200s were even better than their specification.


    800-1000 hours for M88-2
    http://www.mirage-jet.com/Propulsion/Upgrades/upgrades.htm

    1,200 hours for EJ200 as starting point but that was later increased.
    http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-re...ine-sets-new-standards-on-wing-154971305.html

    They flew 6,000 hours during Operation Ellamy over Libya without issue.

    http://rolls-royce.com/products-and...t&utm_campaign=flightglobal&utm_medium=ppcads
     
  15. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Only has to escort from the nearest safe zone, and with new emerging stand-off capabilities, I don't even think penetration is really needed.
     

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