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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. BlackOpsIndia

    BlackOpsIndia Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    Yes it is, most of the points are covered by other members here but I would like to add one more.


    It is important because it is politicians in democracies who have the final word on any deal and they usually come from general public and weight in public opinion before making any decision. They are not defence experts so technical terms from either side will overwhelm them and public opinion becomes important factor. I will quote you few specific examples in India.

    Bofors CASE:

    The case of corruption was never proven in court, though charges looks correct but never proven in court but due to the bad press, perception India never ordered any artillery after that for decades even putting nation security in danger. Case good enough why PR is important?


    Russia is a friend case:

    Russia keep ripping us in almost every deal, they become notorious in world for after sale service, delays in project and way too much cost over runs for most of the Indian projects but since there is a perception that Russia is our friend, not a single politician hesitate in signing deals with Russia. Even knowing very well that they are arming Chinese with similar tech and fooling us in most deals but not a single deal came under scrutiny in India and you will see many Russian fanboys on this forum.


    Gripen Case:

    Its amazing to find Gripen fanboys around defence forums, the plane is yet to face real challenge, come out of drawing board into real world and got most of the part imported like our LCA project yet you will find fanboys all around. Why? As they got good skills in fooling us, I remember reading an article where they offered GaN AESA and suddenly every other forum commenter, blog commenter is using that buzz word as some kind of revolutionary technology that Sweden will equip us with!!!!


    At the very least give us some awesome pictures of Rafale, a few videos and visit our forums few days later :) We love those fancy toys, buzz words and ofcourse show off (mostly my ignorant, arrogant north India).
     
  2. debspark90

    debspark90 FULL MEMBER

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    Yes PR is very essential.

    I wonder why DA is still silent, when SAAB has already started their thing what they do the most again...

    Its high time DA-Relaince should gear up atleast in this Vibrant Gujarat to make a strong foothold in Aero India 17
     
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  3. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    You built some space shuttle few years after.
    How many were lost?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
  4. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    upload_2017-1-12_8-23-4.png
     
  5. R!CK

    R!CK 2nd Lieutant Technical Analyst

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    Good Day!
     
  6. Kane0610

    Kane0610 FULL MEMBER

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    Indian team to visit France to review Rafale jet production

    NEW DELHI: A high-level Indian defence team will visit France next week to review the ongoing production of 36 Rafale fighter aircraft and to formalise the modalities for the payment of the second tranche due this year in the euro 7.878 billion deal+ .

    Defence sources also said the first Rafale fighter is expected to come to India+ a few months earlier than the scheduled date in 2019.

    A team comprising senior IAF and defence ministry officials will travel to France next week to work out the modalities of the payment for the second tranche, the sources said, adding the delegation will also visit the production line in Bordeaux.

    The Rafale fighters planes, aimed as a strategic asset against China+ , will be based in Sarsawa in Uttar Pradesh and Hasimara in West Bengal.

    India and France had on September 23 last year signed the approximately Rs 59,000 crore deal for the Rafale jets, equipped with latest missiles and weapon system besides multiple India-specific modifications.
    The 'vanila price' (just the aircraft alone) will cost about 91 million euros each for a single seater and about 94 million euros for a two-seater trainer aircraft.

    The deal, the first fighter plane contract in 20 years, comes with a saving of nearly 750 million euros besides a 50 per cent offset clause after several rounds of negotiations.
    The 50 per cent offset clause means that Indian businesses, both big and small, will gain work to the tune of over three billion euros.

    These combat aircraft, delivery of which will start in 36 months and will be completed in 67 months from the date the contract was inked, comes equipped with state-of-the-art missile weaponry.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...afale-jet-production/articleshow/56499404.cms


     
  7. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Captain Technical Analyst

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    The very first new report which came up with the name of Sarsawa came up , specifically called for 3 squadrons of 12 Aircrafts each , with 3 different bases.

    As for Jodhpur , in all likely hood 2 additional squadrons of Su30MKI are expected to be ordered , they should replace them.

    3Rd base should be Jamnagar.
     
  8. Kane0610

    Kane0610 FULL MEMBER

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    Jodhpur might get the first squadron of MII Single engine or MII Rafale. It will not base 3 squadrons of Su 30mki.

    Again, Jamnagar is already at its full capacity with 3 squadrons. (1 Mig 29 and 2 Jaguars). It is unlikely that any of the squadrons will be replaced before 2030.
    Probably the Bhuj airbase might be 1 option.
     
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  9. R!CK

    R!CK 2nd Lieutant Technical Analyst

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    Jodhpur houses 2 squadrons of Mig27 UPG that are expected to serve IAF until 2024. With the last of 36 Rafales expected to land before end of 2022, there exists no requirement to create infrastructure for Rafales there until 2024. The base will continue to host Mig-27, Mig-21 Bison and Su-30 MKI hopefully till 2024.

    Three IAF bases that last housed Mig-27 (Not upgraded) are:

    1. Hashimara, West Bengal - Eastern Command (Confirmed for Rafale induction)
    2. Halwara, Punjab - Western Command (Single squadron of Su-30 MKI at present)
    3. Kalaikunda, West Bengal - Eastern Command (No combat squadrons at present - Watch this space for future inductions)​

    The other base as per media is Sarsawa, UP - Western Command. Personally, I doubt this choice as well as the said 12 unit squadron reports. Sarsawa has been a Helicopter unit base for a while that houses Mi-17s. But this could also mean, IAF will have a newly built combat aircraft facility in the western sector. Time will tell I guess.

    Personally, 0 chance for more MKI. And as already answered, Jodhpur might not host a Rafale squadron until Jaguars are replaced.

    Good Day!
     
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  10. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Captain Technical Analyst

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    Sarsawa, UP will be the first , Hashimara 2nd , confirmed.
    All the Jaguars won't be upgrade , 2 squadrons will be retired.

    As for Jodhpur , its Su30s replacing the Mig27s there for sure.
     
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  11. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Captain Technical Analyst

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    If FGFA is going to see the daylight , HAL is 100% receiving a follow on order for 2 squadrons of MKIs.This is sure.
     
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  12. R!CK

    R!CK 2nd Lieutant Technical Analyst

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    Time will tell.

    Good Day!
     
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  13. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Jag IM needs rapid capability multipliers in the form of additional more capable birds with a longer AShM and long legs for Maritime strike role..

    Whether the role is fulfilled now or later via MII needs to be seen.. personally speaking sooner is better obviously..
     
  14. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Neelam.mathews has written few things


    More Rafales for India Still Likely
    by Neelam Mathews
    January 12, 2017, 2:24 PM

    [​IMG]
    The first 36 Rafales for India will be produced in France – but there may be more. (Photo: Dassault)


    some previous indications, India is considering an additional 36 Dassault Rafales, a senior Ministry of Defence official said. The contract is likely to be signed in 2019 with deliveries to start by 2022, when the existing $8.8 billion order for 36 Rafales is completed, AIN has learned from sources close to the long-running procurement process. The two orders would add five squadrons of new fourth-generation fighters to the Indian Air Force

    What seems to have been disjointed planning for future fighters in India is now becoming clearer. India has recently been exploring again the local production of a foreign fighter with OEMs under its “Make in India” policy, this time a single-engine design. But that does not preclude buying more twin-engine Rafales, nor their production in India, it seems. Late last year, Dassault chief executive Eric Trappier told the French newspaper Sud Ouest that “we have the will and the strategy to establish ourselves in India.” There is a 50-percent offset stipulation in the first contract for 36 Rafales, that Dassault will partly fulfill by establishing a parts production and support facility with its local partner, the Reliance Group. “This would be [further] developed if other contracts were signed,” Trappier said. In the protracted and eventually abandoned negotiations for the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) requirement, only 18 Rafales would have been produced in France, with the other 108 assembled in India.

    The Indian Navy is also likely to view with favor the carrier-capable Rafale-M on grounds of commonality, having recently rejected the naval version of the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) because of excess weight and other factors.

    On January 3, Indian defense minister Manohar Parrikar said that the single-engine fighter would be a government-to-government project, that would include some aircraft in fly-away condition and the rest produced in India. The company that offers the best technology deal and financial terms will get the contract, he said. “During the current year, the decision, tender and closure should tentatively be over,” he added.

    The Saab Gripen and Lockheed Martin F-16 are both in the fray, both OEMs having indicated an interest in transferring their entire manufacturing and assembly lines to India. The chosen fighter would supplement the LCA Mk1, 83 of which have been ordered by the IAF. But according to a retired IAFofficial, “The LCA has no deterrent capability. It is more of a matter of optics.”

    Saab has offered to provide help with an improved LCA Mk II. This could be fitted with the same GEF414 engine that powers the Gripen E/F, the version that Saab has confirmed it would offer to India. The LCA Mk1 has a GE 404 engine, which does not provide enough power. And while any Gripen E/Fs sold to the IAF would carry the Leonardo (ex-Selex) AESA radar as standard, Saab is separately offering for the LCA, the new radar technology that it is developing at Gothenberg.

    “India’s military has too many aircraft types that do not make maintenance and spares cost effective. To overcome this, the MoD has formed a committee to explore synergies in procurement,” Kabir Bogra, associate partner at Delhi-based law firm Khaitan & Co. told AIN
    http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2017-01-12/more-rafales-india-still-likely

    +++
    Good story but it becomes clear whom author is rooting for when the article starts mentioning the other name..

    Anyway it's already known and shared here MII is coming and also IN order from Merignac.. the article says and quotes the same from Trappier as well but Trappier had a smile when he said that and that's not written..the chances are Ms Neelam might have picked up murmurs of the IN proposed order over IAF order. But then again, more such news and disclosures are expected.. many wrong spins as well. Still Enjoy.. something is better than nothing..


    ++

    @CNL-PN-AA
    The MII document is submitted or not by DA? Also what's the progress really for the Make In India plan? As well as the Navy order for STOBAR Rafale demonstration?
     
  15. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    This is exactly what I meant by 3 MMRCAs in case Rafale MII fails.
     
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