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Rafale deal signed

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    Cho Ekchyting :yey:
     
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  2. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    No the penalty is not important for the Rafale because the quality of the FCS allows a control of the trajectoite from only 100 kt: even if the lift is not sufficient for the flight to be real, the ballistic trajectory is controlled while the engine continue to push until the flight.

    The mass limits for Rafale on carrier are mainly to avoid the risk of having a dissymetric load at the landing.
     
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  3. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I had stated that it is more about target speed which can be attained by top of trajectory where the aircraft maintains some positive climb rate. When I analysed the performance of LSA, I realised that flight control effectiveness is good enough from 90Kts onwards but the velocity achieved at ramp exit is most important. This ramp exit velocity is a combination of wind on deck (WOD) and the velocity gained thru actual deck run. Even with 30kts wind on deck, Rafale-M with 50/75 engine suffers load penalty and IN is looking for performance based on 20kts WOD in ISA+15*C conditions. This additional 15*C temperature reduced the engine thrust by 6%. In fact I had to argue with IN when they wanted performance calculation as ISA+20*C as on deck temp and ISA+15*C as temp after ramp exit. I had to convince them that with 20kts WOD this kind of temp difference between deck air and ambient air is impossible as the air mass is not stagnant on the deck as it is in the case on air fields. So they accepted that ISA+15*C to be used as fixed value for performance calculation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
  4. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    1. when is india getting its first batch?
    2. who is making the rafales (in india)
    3. what weapons were chosen?
    4. has india sent pilots and technicians to france for training?
    5. are they any changes to the engines
    6. is safran gonna help on the kalveri engine? and will it use the m88 core and hpt?
    im guilty of not keeping upon the thread.(sorry)
     
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  5. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major REGISTERED

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    1. 2019 Officially [Few months before 2019 according to unofficial talks ].

    2. MII program has yet to be officially inked.

    3. Almost everything which France uses.Minus the nuke delivery weapons , plus Indian A2A missile Astra. Plus there are some long range Indian Air to Ground Weapons like long range Glide Munition , Smart Anti Airfield weapon , etc too would be integrated.

    4.First Tranche Payment has been made and a Indian team will be visiting France soon to decide 2nd tranche of payment and timeline of training of Indians.

    5.Nothing officially. But the Engine is being up rated by about 10-12% for thrust.

    6.Help will happen , but it will be about rectifying the problems in Kaveri , not getting a French engine.
     
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  6. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    The one in test at CEP where they had to unfold their brand new test bench? With crazy high temp functioning?
     
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  7. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Some unofficious albeit decidely good sources. HMDS on Qatari Rafale is Elbit, but neither Dash nor JHMCS. That would leave Targo. Awaiting for confirmation.
     
  8. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    Meteor BVRAAM
    MICA-IR/EM W/BVRAAM
    SCALP-EG ALCM
    AASM Hammer (likely, but not fully confirmed yet)

    Indian/part-Indian equipment:

    Astra Mk.1/2 BVRAAM
    BrahMos-NG ALCM
    Smart Anti-Airfield Weapon (SAAW) PGM/E-bomb
    Next-Gen Anti-Radiation Missile (NGARM)

    If the SAAW can be integrated, the Israeli Griffin-series PGMs can be, as well. Along with the usual Sudarshan-I LGB and Sudarshan-II PGM families. The Nirbhay-Mini ALCM, if and when developed, will also find use aboard the IAF Rafale. Although with the 3K22 Zircon already entering testing stages in Russia, different versions of the BrahMos-2K could emerge in the 2020s, giving IAF the freedom to modify doctrine enough to eliminate all need for air-launched subsonic/supersonic CMs in the future. Terrain-hugging N-delivery can be taken of by land & ship-launched Nirbhays. Will have to see.
     
  9. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    1. so q4 2018?

    2. any favourites?

    3. was asking for specifics like for example: 120 mica, 200 iris-t.........

    4. i read the first tranche payment was made thats just before i didn't check on the rafale thread.

    5. i read the uae wants an uprated engine, they have some sort of weird fetish with having more powerful engines. ksa, qatar and bahrain have similar climates but they dont whinge. they'd probably go for the uprated engine.

    6. indeed help will happen but what type of help is what im interesting in.
     
  10. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    Targo? Same as on the Tejas, then.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    the scalp-eg is the most interesting part for me. i think the scalp-eg is the french version whilst the storm shadow is the british version.
    well i guess that eliminates the need to develop your own alcm.
     
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  12. CNL-PN-AA

    CNL-PN-AA 2nd Lieutant MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Yes, it is not ready yet.
     
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  13. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major REGISTERED

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    1. Most Likely.

    2. See the condition in MII is changed now. Rafale has its position more or less confirmed. The talk of F16 and Gripen , is not going to affect Rafale numbers.

    The proposals from LM and SAAB are to compensate for deficiency in numbers of LCA ! Remember , LCA was to see a production of ~300 Aircraft , now with only ~150 at the horizon , the gap for another 150 needs to be filled.

    3. That's not clear yet.

    5.Uprating the M88 is not a big issue, its only downside would be slightly more fuel consumption and a slight more effort in servicing.

    But advantages are there, the landscape is highly varied here , and a slightly more powerful engine opens up more options on a platform like Rafale. Further In Rafale vs EF2000 talk , weaker Engine of Rafale was one point which everyone took as a reason why EF2000 would have an upper hand in WVR combat. Considering Rafale will have to face A2A Combat with PAF F16s, a slightly more powerful engine is always helpful.

    6. In engine there are various parameters to perform well. And then there is experience too. I would hint one thing here. The Kaveri here had very large disturbances from Harmonic motion of blades of "7th and 9th order " , which our development team initially couldn't figure out , as they never knew that this could have happened.

    They would impart experience , do trails , point out possible things which can go wrong , possible solutions , and then help in metallurgical/fabrication areas to give it more wet thrust.
     
  14. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Btw, did anyone try to make a comparative of different HMDs? That would be interesting.
     
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  15. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major REGISTERED

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    Rafale output rose in 2016, Dassault says

    FLIGHTGLOBAL.COM BY: CRAIG HOYLE LONDON
    Dassault delivered nine newly-built Rafale fighters in 2016, according to a financial update issued by the company on 5 January. The total was in line with plans for the year, and represents an increase of one unit over the eight shipped in 2015, it adds.

    Six examples of the twin-engined type were handed over to the French military, with the other three delivered to export customer Egypt, which has now received six aircraft from its order for 24.

    The French air force and navy and Egyptian air force are current Rafale operators, with Qatar’s 2015 order for 24 of the type having been followed by an Indian order for 36, signed last year. Concluded after a protracted negotiation process with New Delhi, the deal – valued at €7.75 billion ($8.1 billion) – “demonstrates once again the Rafale’s performance”, the company says.


    Dassault says its Rafale order backlog stood at 110 aircraft as of 31 December 2016. This total comprised 32 for the French military, plus a combined 78 for export buyers Egypt (18), India (36) and Qatar (24).

    In addition to producing the nine new Rafales, Dassault also in 2016 returned a pair of M-model fighters to French navy service, after completing work to upgrade them to the F3 operating standard. The service's strike fighters are now entirely Rafale Ms, following the retirement last year of its last Dassault Super Etendards. Flight Fleets Analyzer records the navy as having current active fleet of 39 examples.

    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/rafale-output-rose-in-2016-dassault-says-433062/
     
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