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Rafale deal to be signed on eve of Hollande’s India visit

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by DrSomnath999, Nov 26, 2015.

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  1. DrSomnath999

    DrSomnath999 Major RESEARCHER

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    Written by Sushant Singh | New Delhi | Published:November 26, 2015 12:32 am
    [​IMG]

    The deal will be for 36 Rafale fighter aircraft.



    India and France are set to sign the deal for 36 Rafale fighter aircraft on the eve of French President François Hollande’s visit to India for the Republic Day celebrations. The draft contract, which envisages supply of the first fighter within 36 months of signing the deal, has been finalised.

    The supply of full complement of 36 fighters to the Indian Air Force (IAF) will be completed within seven years of signing the deal.


    The induction of the 36 fighters will add to the IAF squadron strength which is now down to 34. At least 44 fighter squadrons are needed to be comfortable against China and Pakistan.

    The proposal for buying 36 Rafale fighters from France in a government-to-government deal was announced during Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Paris in April.



    It followed a long-drawn tender for acquisition of 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) for the IAF in which the Rafale had been selected as the L-1 or lowest bidder after a decade of evaluation, testing and negotiations. Mired in controversies over pricing and transfer of technology, the process was scrapped by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar earlier this year.

    Industry sources said the price of a Rafale fighter in the current deal has been fixed at the 2007 base rate plus an escalation formula agreed upon by both sides. As per commercial bids received for 126 fighters, plus an increment of 5.5-7.5 per cent per year applied on different sub-systems, items and services as per the escalation formula, the final price for the 36 fighters is expected to be around $8.3 bn.

    The draft agreement states that all 36 fighters will be supplied by Dassault Aviation in a fly-away condition. To avoid any complications, the two sides agreed for the same SOP (standard of preparation or technical specifications) for the Rafale fighters as agreed upon in the tender for 126 aircraft.

    Sources said Dassault was keen to include improvements in the SOP, with limited change in pricing, but the Indian side did not want to introduce new elements in the negotiations.

    Defence ministry sources told The Indian Express that the clause for 50 per cent offsets, as mandated in the 126 aircraft proposal, shall be applicable to the current deal.

    According to industry sources, the offsets commitment will now be fulfilled through a private vendor. This is a major difference from the earlier deal, where public-sector Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) was to make 108 fighters in India.

    Anil Ambani-owned Reliance Defence Limited (RDL) is said to be the leading contender for discharging the offsets for the 36 fighter deal.

    Defence ministry sources say that Dassault and RDL have to fulfil the offset commitment.

    Confirming it is constructing a greenfield aerospace facility in Nagpur which will start production in FY 2016-17, RDL said it has not entered into an agreement with Dassault Aviation so far.


    Source:
    Rafale deal to be signed on eve of Hollande’s India visit | The Indian Express
     
  2. sunny6611

    sunny6611 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    " the final price for the 36 fighters is expected to be around $8.3 bn."

    thats 230 million per a/c !!!!!

    cost more than F 35 or may be F22 ??

    was not 126 in $10 billion better..............even if all were to be brought directly from France ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2015
  3. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Apples to apples. Rafale cost comes with weapons. The F-35 doesn't.

    If you compare flyaway costs, F-22 costs 140M, F-35 costs 85-90M, Rafale supposedly costs 70-80M. 73 according to Picdel.

    MMRCA cost was entirely different and no weapons. And it was 15B.
     
  4. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Yes 230 million-(weapon+fuel+servicing+engine+training+TOT+offset clause to reinvest 50% in India etc etc for throughout their service life)= 60 million or so.....10 bn figure for 126 was way back in 2000.. MMRCA was for 126 and additional order of 63 =189 in total......Leave all these calculations and hold your horses,India will be getting all 189 Rafales like we ordered MKI's in tranches..The first tranch of Rafale is for 36...The next in the coming years maybe for 54 or so....
     
  5. sunny6611

    sunny6611 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    but :

    "The supply of full complement of 36 fighters to the Indian Air Force (IAF) will be completed within seven years of signing the deal."
     
  6. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Dessault can make it faster anytime they want..I don't think that will take 7 years or so..From 2019 we will be receiving 15 Rafales/year or may be more than that...so we get all the 36 by 2021 at the max that is six years from signing the contract...After the kargil war,our armed forces wanted to have more mirages as MMRCA and the french govt offered to shift the supply line of Mirages to India but due to so many reasons before Atalji govt could take decision on this front Congress came to power and this MMRCA thing happned...Otherwise we would not have a depleting squardon situation... Plus from Mirages we would have gained expertise in making turbofans and a lot of other top technologies..BUT
     
  7. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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  8. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Think Australia is getting 58 F35s for 12 billion, complete, no off set except they are producing some of the F35. Of course the F35 is not a 30 year old antique, obsolete 4th generation plane.
     
  9. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Actually F35 comes with a pandora box which Indian government do not want to open otherwise what happend to France could be the fate of India if attacked/nuked by pakistan/jihadistan..
     
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  10. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    12 billion for a power point plane! A plane not able to cross Atlantic but will be fantastic to morrow.
     
  11. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Doubt if the F35 or Rafale are going to make that much difference, except when backing some one on the ground, you could use a helicopter to drop bombs on Pakistanis and hihadistanis
     
  12. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    guess it depends on if you want to be the one shooting down or shot down. Don't get me wrong I think the Rafale is a nice plane for its time which was a long time ago.
     
  13. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I prefer shooting down it's why i choose Rafale.
     
  14. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    I was refering to the agreements which GOI has to accede/cede to get TOT for F35...we can use Rafale/Mirage/Russian planes without any objection from their respective OEM govt whereever we like to use them...Yes you are right that to bomb jihadis we can use any plane that's why we are upgrading specat jaguars..
     
  15. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Rafales are deployed in syria,Lybia and to a lot other fronts...Where is the F35 ????
     
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