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Rafale deal to be signed on eve of Hollande’s India visit

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by DrSomnath999, Nov 26, 2015.

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  1. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Exactly, that is where the bussiness opportunity is and that is what Namo and our DM trying to have from France in the name of offset.Just imagine most of those 160,000 part are made in India we will be supplying those parts to the world and Indian companies gain expertise in making such things and the amount of Jobs that will be generated in India..MAKE IN INDIA.
     
  2. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    What Russians have to say about Mig 21 crashes.
    “It is wrong as all those spare parts are fake. For MiG and other planes, you need authentic parts, And then you are surprised why your planes fall because spare parts are bought from unauthorized. Do you really think your are safely going to get 160,000 complex highly technical parts of specialized materials made in India that are needed at the rate to 10 or 12 a year. India could not safely manufacture and maintain the Mig 21, do you think you are going to do better with Rafales.
     
  3. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    The MiG 21 is a different story alltogether..Don't mix both cases these are all different..May be you do not know that we have not been manufacturing any such component of MiG's in India not all of them..What we do and what we have done regarding MiG 21 is we bought some components from several sources and manufactured some of them with TOT but the critical components,we bought them and are still buying for our MKI
     
  4. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    The Reality Behind the Mystery of Indian Air Force MiG-21 'Flying Coffins'
    HAL, INDIA, Mig-21, Mig-29, Russia
    A post-mortem of the Indian Air Force’s (IAF) MiG series of fighter jets has come up with shocking revelations pointing to perennial engine oil leaks besides other serious technical glitches that have lent the aircraft notorious distinction of ‘flying coffin’ or ‘widow-maker’ owing to frequent crashes and loss of human lives.
    Every MiG crash in the country invited emotional outbursts from public and stinging rebuke from defence analysts, but the incidents were invariably written off claiming them to be human error.
    Documents accessed by The Sunday Standard reveal that MiG engines that propelled these roaring fighter jets, once considered backbone of the IAF, are of poor quality. Nearly 40 per cent of these engines and accessories produced by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), Koraput, have been returned by the IAF for some or the other defects. HAL is a Navratna company, owned by the government.


    IAF MiG-21 Flying Coffins
    The problem ranges from oil leak, metallic particle in oil filters and hot air leak from rear casing to trouble in compressor and even in turbine of MiG-27 aero engines. The defects are scary for the government, which has lost almost half of its MiG fleet to the crashes in the last 40 years, leaving 171 pilots and 39 civilians dead. Although Defence Minister A K Antony had told Parliament last year that both human error and technical defects were responsible for MiG crashes, he conveniently forgot to inform people about horrific condition of government’s state-of-the-art manufacturing unit.

    “Most of the cause factors can be classified as defects during manufacturing or overhauling process. IAF has been flagging these issues but government’s response is slow,” said an official on the condition of anonymity.
    It is learnt that all three MiGs—MiG-27, MiG-29 and MiG-21—are facing serious quality issues. MiG-27 suffered Low Pressure Turbine Rotor (LPTR) failure in at least 11 recent incidents. The HAL in some cases even lied while overhauling the LPTR, saying it had followed the overhaul manual but Ministry of Defence (MoD) officials said the procedure recommended by the original equipment manufacturer was not being implemented by the celebrated company.
    There are more shocking facts conveniently swept under the carpet. The springs installed in fuel pump of MiG 21 engines are failing frequently. A MiG-21 Bison aircraft crashed in November 2012 in Gujarat which was attributed to spring failure.
    The documents suggest that of the five main fuel pumps fitted with HAL-manufactured springs, at least three springs failed, which is unforgivable as it would have certainly resulted in accidents. Shockingly, the main fuel pumps of MiG-21 Bison engine continue to leak fuel, despite four studies conducted and implemented since 1990s. It says despite incorporating changes, fuel leak from main fuel pump continued unabated from throttle end.
    A senior official said flying operations of MiG-29 fleet are often suspended due to non-availability of critical accessories and poor quality of repairing. Even if one aircraft of the fleet is affected by the snag, the entire fleet is grounded till the problem is identified and resolved.
    However, another reason behind the poor quality of production and engine repairs is attributed to mass production work in the last leg of production year, to achieve the target. For example, in the first six months of 2012-13 production year, HAL finished the work on only four MiG-29 engines, but in the last quarter of the year, four engines were completed within three months.
    Similarly for MiG-27, the HAL finished the work on nine engines in nine months, but interestingly another nine engines were completed within the last three months. The issue was flagged by the MoD saying such trend is adversely affecting the quality of aero engines.
    “HAL is not interested to provide quality engines or repair work to the IAF. They are only interested in meeting the production numbers every year. There is also an impression that the work force in HAL delays the production to last three months to earn few extra bucks for ‘over time’ which is disgusting, given the fact that human lives are at stake,” an official said.

    Dark secret behind mystery of the 'flying coffins' -The New Indian Express
     
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Don't get what you are saying here. Anyway price quoted in MMRCA was different from price quoted in GTG. GTG is cheaper, so escalation will only take effect from after May 2015. But it is generally always taken from the day contract is signed, not before.
     
  6. BATTLE FIELD

    BATTLE FIELD FULL MEMBER

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    why the hell we are stuck in rafale

    what will we do with this 36 jets??
     
  7. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    modi had assureed through joint statemnet that price for GTG will be lower than that under MMRCA

    we dont see that hapenning here
     
  8. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    @Averageaerican, HAL is a DPSU and In Rafale,private sectors are involved like Reliance...Again you are mixing two different things..PS you can quote someone if your post is addressed to that person's post...
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
  9. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Because our forces need it and there is no other plane which can replace Rafale as per the requirement and force structure of IAF..
    what will we do with this 36 jets??[/QUOTE]
    We will order more and make them in India which is totally different from what we are doing with MKI's...
     
  10. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    It's all part of the plan. As I said months ago, there is a Make in India plan for Rafale. We are talking about hundreds of jets now. The 36 jet order is for immediate operational need, that's why even the delivery schedule is very aggressive, just 3 years for full delivery. Most other similar deals take 5-6 years.
     
  11. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    We will order more and make them in India which is totally different from what we are doing with MKI's...[/QUOTE]

    Hows that working so far?
     
  12. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    We have 200+ jets. Production will end in 2019 at 272.
     
  13. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    To everyone who supports purchase of Rafale and also to those who oppose it, If DA sets up an assembly line for these jets in India, The order will easily cross 200 for made in India jets only.
     
  14. The Drdo Guy

    The Drdo Guy Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    We will gain expertise from making them in India and using that knowledge we can go furthur to make a world class fighter of our own..I wish Rafales are made in India and the Mirage story won't be repeated this time so that our aerospace sector can develope and they would have a lot to offer to our armed forces..
     
  15. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I appreciate your sense of Patriotism but you must not discount the bribes which come with such decisions. We have been assembling Jags in India, did it contribute in any manner to upgradation of our skills?
     
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