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Recap: IAF procurements between 2004 and 2014

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Sancho, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. Angel Eyes

    Angel Eyes 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Jaguar till 2042:blink:
     
  2. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Yup, but only odd 60 Darin III will be available till 2040, rest numbers will be cannibalized for spares support.
     
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  3. Angel Eyes

    Angel Eyes 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    .
    All of them will be used for close air support operations i suppose...
     
  4. _Anonymous_

    _Anonymous_ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I'd like to know if you can help me here , why's it that the Jaguars are short on spares given that we're supposed to be procuring the French fleet of Jaguars only for its spares whereas the last Jaguar emerged out of HAL somewhere around 2004 ( if memory serves me right ) ?

    What incompetence on the part of HAL / MoD / Vayu Bhavan can explain this sordid state of affairs ?

    Similarly , if memory serves me right the upgradation of the MiG 27 ( with state of the art engines and avionics) was nixed by the IAF around the same time and post a few crashes I read the entire fleet was grounded pending mothballing by 2017-19 timelines .

    Now you say it's going to be around till 2025 with not much flying to do till 2025 , I assume .

    Could you shed some light on the above developments ?

    Thanks in advance .
     
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Except for 2 squadrons worth of 37 jets, all the other Jaguars are from the mid 80s.
     
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  6. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Yes, two squadrons of Jaguars are as old as MKIs. Anyway, Jaguars don't have spares issues. The French are offering their old Jaguars on their own, as a gift. We should gladly accept it.

    As for the Mig-27s, it's unclear why IAF rejected the engine upgrade, but there have been avionics upgrades. We have 80+ Mig-27s left that were supposed to exit the IAF before 2017, but due to falling squadron strength we have decided to prolong its service life a bit more. 2 squadrons will survive until 2025.
     
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  7. _Anonymous_

    _Anonymous_ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Frankly , why would the French volunteer with their Jaguars without us asking for it is beyond me .

    Similarly , the MiG 27 left seem another version of flying coffins .

    But the MoD like God works in mysterious ways . Someday , I'm sure we'd see the logic behind their moves .

    Thanks for the answer .
     
  8. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    The Air Chief explained the road map here:
    https://www.pressreader.com/india/vayu-aerospace-and-defence/20170401/281547995750561

    LCA is suppose to be a Mig 21 replacement, Mig 27s were and will be replaced by MKI and partially MMRCA. All upgraded fighters by FGFA and eventually AMCA. It won't be a direct replacement though, FGFA is suppose to come somewhere in the 2020s and will replace some of the medium class fighter squads first, while AMCA later might replace heavy class MKI squads. So the replacement on paper is dependent on time lines when fighters needs to be replaced and which are coming in at that time.
     
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  9. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    We know that C17, EMB 145, Hawk, PC7 and Mi 17 were delivered, all remaining C130s were planned for delivery this year. MKIs as recently stated around 35 left, with delivery planned from 2019 onwards. LCA delivery till 2022. HAL website says 216 Dhruvs were delivered to all 3 forced till March 2017, will be difficult to tell how much of that order were delivered to IAF.
     
  10. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    The last jags were produced in 2008. We kept producing them because we could, not because they were capable or it made any sense for the future. We now have to buy 2nd hand airframes for spares, guess how their condition will be in another 10 years.
     
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  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    The upgrade was rejected because of the high costs and the fact that only 2 squads were upgraded, while we kept Mig 23s as trainers too. Because of the engine problems and the most likely early retirement, the additional 2 MKI squads were ordered.
     
  12. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Actually when you look at our upgrade programmes it's difficult not to blame our forces for wasted money. The Mig 27 upgrade was far too big on added systems, compared to the real numbers of fighters left in the fleet. The Darin 3 upgrades might have the numbers, but it's another waste of budget to upgrade these outdated fighters with AESA radars or other stuff, although IAF might not even use them in modern wars anymore.
    IN was highly criticised for the Sea Harrier upgrades as well, which were not even in service long enough, to make the costs remotely worth it.
    We need more fighter and especially more modern fighters, not wasting money on outdated stuff.
     
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  13. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    I think politics played a bigger part. The IAF probably wanted to speed up MMRCA.

    Or there may have been questionable quality in the upgrades. I remember the IAF saying the Mig-27 upgrades are not up to mark.

    Money wouldn't have played a part in the re-engine of up to 80 Mig-27s.
     
  14. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    The French want to get rid of their Jaguars because storage also costs money. It had no resale value either since India didn't really need them and there are no other users. So they want to score a diplomatic win by giving them away for free.
     
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  15. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Again, there are no 80 fighters, only 2 squads with different trainers.
     

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