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Recap: IAF procurements between 2004 and 2014

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Sancho, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    I'm talking about a decade ago.
     
  2. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    It doesn't matter what you are talking about, what matters is, how many fighters were meant for upgrades, because only those would have got new engines as well.
     
  3. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    When you have a lot of fighters, they are upgraded in phases. Like only 80 aircraft for the first phase of MKI upgrades or the tranches of upgrades for Jaguar.

    If an upgrade fails, they will simply stop the program, it's as simple as that.
     
  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Wrong, you don't upgrade old versions that are meant to be phased out soon anyway, you only upgrade the latest versions, to keep them important for the rest of their life, that's why the Mig 27 upgrade was only for 2 squads.
     
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Why don't you look up the date of induction of the Mig-27 and better educate yourself?
     
  6. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    You upgrade the aircraft that are old enough to need upgrades yet young enough to still have flying potential.


    How precisely you define "need upgrades" and "still has potential" depends on your budget and your operational needs. If you really need to keep a lot of aircraft in flying conditions, then old airframes that have exhausted their potential might go through an upgrade process to extend their lifespan by basically rebuilding the aircraft after replacing the most fatigued parts with new ones. That's why the USAF bought a lot of spare wings for the A-10 in 2007, for example.
     
  7. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    MiG-21 multiple tranches, Bison would retire the last, there are still some S and FL series in air. Bisons will retire based on airframe life.
    MiG-27 - most of the fleet is already grounded, will retire before the bisons.
    Jaguar Darin > Has another 15-18 years of life in majority of the fleet,
    MiG 29UPG> Probably another 15-18 years.

    There is no one to one replacement of aircrafts by newer aircraft, instead there is a role shift.
    Like Mig21, Mig23 roles of point defence and interception no longer effectively exist instead CAP and air superiority are can be channeled by MKIs, Mig29's , M2K, Rafales as well as LCA1P.

    Similarly Mig27 and Jaguar Air interdiction, Ground attack and Deep Strike can be augmented at different flight profiles Rafales, MKI's, Mirage 2000's and to an extent by Mig29UPG as well with it's multi-role capabilities.
     
    surya kiran, Sancho, Agent_47 and 2 others like this.
  8. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    irrespective of DARE upgrades, the real issue has been the cracks in the Engine. One of the interim would be to get rid of swing wing for weight reduction and give the al31f engine. It would still serve as a competent stand in for another 10 years, but now it might be too late. If we did this maybe 5-8 years ago we might have been able to save the fleet. Another thing to consider is most of our Mig23B's are mothballed, not scrapped. maybe some of those air frames can be utilized for some creative jugaad with a re-engine and weight reduction. Same Fuselage, new fixed wing, new engine and DARE avionics with MKI Console. We might have something.
     
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  9. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Maintaining Spares is the job of IAF BRD not HAL. IAF is free to send the aircrafts back to HAL and PAY for overhaul and we will gladly do it, as we have done for every other platform.
    You maintain your own spares in your own garage if you want to do your own maintenance (like the Base repair depots of IAF) , if you cannot maintain your car and send it to the dealership's Workshop, they will service it and bill you for it. (HAL Overhaul). But you cannot complain about your manufacturer if you do not have the competence to stock and manage your MRO.
     
  10. _Anonymous_

    _Anonymous_ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    So basically in Inglish what you're trying to convey is the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing ?

    What a truly sorry state of affairs indeed !!?!
     
  11. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    no, that's not at all what I am implying. I have said in very clear terms what needs to happen.
     
  12. _Anonymous_

    _Anonymous_ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Pretty cryptic .Can you elaborate ? Eg why did India go in for French Jaguars ? To make up the falling nos as some members here suggest or to cannibalise those AC parts to serve our existing fleets as most news reports seem to suggest .

    Why's it that the DARIN 3 upgrade and the fitment of Honeywell engines hasn't progressed given our precarious and further deterioration in sheer nos of operationally available FA every year ?
     
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  13. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    I am not aware of French jaguar deal, if it is confirmed there could be multiple factors, Maybe IAF got a good deal, Maybe there was incentive in getting the units, Maybe there were structural air frame damage on existing fleet for which the most cost effective mechanism is to cannibalize. I am not sure about the answer.

    Honeywell engine was a slamdunk , I personally would have loved to see a GTX-35v version which was slightly down rated but a bit unrealist is as it is a a fatty and most likely won't fit the adour bay. Darin III was a nice upgrade, I am not sure of the C/B for the project. It is completely an IAF prerogative on getting both items done.
     
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  14. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    There was no goal to save the fleet, it was meant to replacement anyway. The only goal was to keep the newst 2 squad upgraded with modernised systems till they can be replaced as well. So any engine upgrade would had been worth the costs and neither Mig 27 nor the Jags remain useful in modern wars anyway.

    Keeping outdated equipment in the fleet, just to show some paper squads, won't help IAF to defend tte country or even be efficient. The modernisation of the transport fleet with C130Js and C17 has showed that quite well. Same goes for air warfare, where single role strike fighters are a burden, rather than being an asset. At least against the enemies we fight.[/QUOTE]
     
  15. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Getting spare parts, for an outdated fighter that no country except India keeps operating. Without spares, there is no way we can keep them operational for the expected time and we might see another early phase out after expensive upgrades, just as in the Sea Harrier and Mig 27 cases.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
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