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Rohingyas - Ethnic cleansing or the only viable solution for long-term peace

Discussion in 'China & Asia Pacific' started by BMD, Nov 22, 2017.

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What do you do?

This poll will close on Aug 18, 2020 at 9:31 PM.
  1. Keep them

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  2. Demographic rationalisation

    19 vote(s)
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  1. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Had written a very long reply indeed.

    Somehow got rebooted and lost the work.

    Will reply in detail over this later. Am limited in time right now, for another month or so.

    This is a very interesting topic and needs to be addressed without the usual riff raff or misconceptions and ideas.
     
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  2. _Anonymous_

    _Anonymous_ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Look forward to your reply .
     
  3. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    And what about the Wahhabis too?
     
  4. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Your basics are quite weak. That is why I intervened here. You need to be able to differentiate between various sects of Islam to be able to understand the issue.

    We have gone into depth on this religion, the need to understand the psyche is part of the way to deal with it. There are no quick fixes.

    I lost a pretty long post earlier. Will redraft it at a later date. But suffice to say, head to the roots. Prophet Mohammad gave no written copies of Surahs or verses. And by the time consolidation of the surahs took place, many of his original followers were dead a long time (due to wars etc as was he, almost a decade) and Islam had grown politically with many new entrants claiming to have got a suran from him. This corrupted the actual surahs.

    Read the topics of Abu Bakr (not ISIS variety but the Caliph under who first attempt at writing was undertaken), Uthman and Koranic recessions and of course, Sahih al Bukhari and the chapter on jihad.

    You will find interpretations are the issue.

    PS: the accepted renditions are the Uthman ones ... consolidated 19 years after prophets demise. You can imagine ;)
     
  5. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    They all use the Quran as their holy book, which encourages violence and paedophilia.

    This is completely irrelevant really. Aside from the fact that Mohammad raped a 9 year-old, the idea that he got anything from God is pure fiction. So the only relevant part here is that Muslims decided to come up with verses encouraging violence, whether they be Mohammad or other is irrelevant.

    And considering that most Muslims regard the Quran as being the direct word of God, clearly you've contradicted this.
     
  6. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Raped? Can you source that?
     
  7. _Anonymous_

    _Anonymous_ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Frankly , it sounds like an apologist . None of this is going to cut any ice on either side of the divide.At the end of the day , we are faced with a sect which has an extreme reaction based on an extremely narrow interpretation of what is an ambiguous text to begin with and has hijacked the entire faith with a great deal of silent support (percentage proportion of population unknown . But they do agree with the larger war being waged against the west even if they may not be in agreement with all the methods used ) . Throwing up the roots of how the Koran as received today was conceived is not going to be accepted by either the Muslims or non Muslims .

    We have to deal with the fact that the house is on fire .Dousing the flames takes priority over investigating who set it on fire , how and why .

    As an aside let me share my two cents - both Sanatan Dharm as well as Islam are war like religions . Let's consider our own religion first - All our religious texts and epics don't shy away from war .While the emphasis is on peaceful coexistence , war is definitely an option to be prosecuted in case one runs out of alternatives.

    I've been reading a lot of alternative renderings of the Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT) aptly titled the Out of India Theory which posits that India is the birthplace of the Aryans . While there's little in terms of established archaeological evidence to support it , what we have doesn't endorse the AIT as well .

    This theory puts to rest all that balderdash that we've been subjected ad nauseam to . Namely that India is a land of peace ,it never coveted anybody else's land and all that blah about Gandhian ahimsa in the footsteps of Mahavira and Buddha , living up to a two thousand plus year heritage of peaceful co existence , mutual respect , etc .

    Let's consider for a moment how did this desire for peace spring up .On the face of it , documented history in India begins with the life and times of the Buddha and his contemporaries since there's little by way of corroborative evidence of earlier civilizations in documented form . What we have are archaeological sites like those of the the Painted Grey Ware ones of western UP among others dating back to 800 BC and of course the Saraswati Indus Civilization going as far back as 3000 BC and beyond . As far religious texts go we have the Vedas and the Puranas . The epics themselves were committed to paper around 200 BC - 400 AD as are the Puranas . The precise dating of the Rg Veda is problematic though it is assumed to have been commited to paper around 800 BC .

    While the epics have been embellished with interpolations , plenty of layers and additional stories reflecting more of contemporary concerns around the time they were written apart from the philosophy its authors wanted to expound reflecting contemporary society , at its heart it's about internecine tribal warfare in case of the Mahabharata and of a clash of civilizations in case of the Ramayana , with the latter being unanimously confirmed as the older of the two epics although they may have been committed to paper around the same time .

    Its what the oldest of the Vedas - the Rg Veda also records about the Dasrajina - War of the 10 kings which details the war of the 10 kings between Sudas of the Trstsu - Bharatas on one side and a whole host of tribes pitched against him that endorses the central theory that a just war was very much part of the then religious ethos and it's philosophy .

    Those 10 tribes lost the battle and were pushed out of what's now mainland India into present day Pakistan and Eastern Afghanistan .Here's where things get interesting . According to some OIT proponents , some of those tribes eventually went on to colonize Iran and founded the Zoroastrian faith centuries later , while others wandered as far as the Caspian Sea and even further into Anatolia and beyond which explains why traces of Sanskrit can be found in Latin , Greek , German and other languages of the Indo European branch and not the other way round .

    All these languages owe their origin to a common mother language the Proto Indo European (PIE) of which Sanskrit was the oldest descendant. While the latter is universally accepted across the academia consisting of Linguists , Archaeologists and Historiographers ,The OIT is seen more of a Hindu Nationalist project while the AIT is gradually being buried under the carpet .

    To return to my original premise , we were a war like people given our history and philosophy as recounted by our religious texts and epics . Perhaps the Sramana movement emerged and derived it's moral and spiritual authority and superiority from a rejection of those Vedic precepts including religious wars . Perhaps their extra emphasis on peace / Ahimsa as articulated (going to the other extreme in case of the Jains as opposed to the Madhya Marg of the Buddha ) was an acknowledgement of the blood thirsty ways of their contemporary world which received its religious endorsement in Vedic religion , ethos , philosophy and it's way of life .

    We know more about the philosophy and precepts of the Sramana religions , it's effects on the later Vedic religion and traditions and how the interplay of those religions influenced what eventually became Puranic Hinduism or Sanatan Dharma.We know next to nothing of what informed or influenced the extreme bent towards Ahimsa that formed the core of Jain or Buddhist or other Sramana philosophies .

    Extrapolating these theories to the way contemporary Islam and it's interplay with various religions is being played out we are approaching the High Noon ( if we haven't already approached it ) or the moment of truth in Islam . Things will get worse before they get better .

    When the non Muslim world was repulsed by the extreme philosophy of the Wahabbis or the Iranian revolution they were made to confront the Al Qaeda and it's nihilist tendencies . Today compared to the ISIS , Al Qaeda seems like a boy scouts . All this has been achieved in less than 40 years .( The year 1979 will go down in the history of the world and Islam as a seminal year not only got being the year of the Iranian Revolution but also the Seige of Mecca prompting a more conservative polity in Saudi Arabia and it's export to the larger Muslim world . Ditto with the Iranians .Finally this was also the year when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan and brought about the mainstreaming of Jihad in contemporary Islamic world .)

    All this blood letting in the name of Islam is bound to trigger some massive soul searching in the Islamic and the non Islamic world which in turn will impact the future interplay of these religions / societies . Unfortunately , this will take time . How much , one can't say ? But the costs will be enormous .
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
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  8. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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  9. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Ayesha was married to him ....

    History is replete with marriages at 12 or 13, so what if it was lower age then for her case?


    Stop peddling bullshit.

    Heck, the Christians are still at it; Pedophile and Rape of young children. The whole of Roman Catholic Church is corrupted on that front.

    You will hardly be a person who can cast aspersions on that aspect ..... lol

    Just go through the statistics of your country today also, you will find girls as young as 9 or 10 sexually active and teen pregnancy a medical and social problem.
     
  10. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    I knew about what she did in Punjab, and I remember you told us all a long time ago about the trouble Indira started in Kashmir. But I'm not aware of what she did in Tamil Nadu, what's that all about?
     
  11. _Anonymous_

    _Anonymous_ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Tamil Tigers and the Eelam movement .
     
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  12. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Ok, I was aware of that stuff going on under Rajiv Gandhi. So basically, was it that Indira started/stoked the TT & Eelam movement, and then when Rajiv Gandhi took over, the situation had gone out of control and he then had to try to handle the TT's?
     
  13. _Anonymous_

    _Anonymous_ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    In one word - yes. The groundwork was laid under the leadership of Ms Gandhi spearheaded by RAW although the arms training of the various factions of the Tigers and their arming commenced after the Jaffna riots in 1983 and beyond , around the time Ms Gandhi was assassinated ( 1984 ) and Rajiv Gandhi was sworn in as PM . You've detailed the rest .
     
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  14. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    You're kidding right? He was an early day Jimmy Savile and they based an entire moral code on him.

    There have been lots of cases yes, but the equivalent would be if Jesus was a paedophile and the Bible condoned it.

    Meaning?

    Mostly with Muslim sex gangs.
     
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  15. Golden_Rule

    Golden_Rule Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    LOL ... Exterminate natives of all of the above lands, that is what the British did ... pretty decent, isn't it?

    and you forgot to mention South Africa ... the open example of British Terrorism but attenuated as Apartheid
     
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