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Russia cannot give India sophisticated Stealth Technology

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by lca-fan, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. Ripcord322

    Ripcord322 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Until we as people change.
    And Make the Political Parties stand up to the threats and not just give rally speeches and diplomatic statement.


    And as I always say, We being a democracy cannot blame any party....Since we the people ourselves elect them.


    Anyway...Pragmitaclly, I don't see any way we can outshine or outsmart the Chinese in any significant field...For the next Half a Century or so....If we develop properly, economically and militarily...For a couple of decades....We might be able to 'stand-up' to the Chinese...But as is the case...For the foreseeable future we may not be able to 'Challenge' them.
     
    SrNair likes this.
  2. PeegooFeng41

    PeegooFeng41 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Couple of things. Gap between India and China is wide and is getting wider. If we do not invest in core research right now, in future it will be even harder to do that because you know you will not be able to produce anything which is atleast a decade older than China.

    So that means we need to invest in basic research in these area and we need to do it now.
     
    SrNair likes this.
  3. ranadd

    ranadd FULL MEMBER

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    Actually, we are already 10 to 15 years behind China. UPA 2 did so much damage. Not blaming Congress alone, the bureaucracy just watched. They are the ones that is supposed to be apolitical. But we all know how they function.

    This wish that Modi can make us in equal footing in China is wishful thinking. Unless, as you said, we start pumping billions into every sector. The billions, India simply does not have. To start with, India can spend the money she already spends on the correct area, even that is not happening.

    Indian startup climate is toxic and un-supportive. 6 to 7 out of 10 startups I personally know failed, is failing.

    Have you been to China? Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities? I have. They are simply splendid. Indian T2 and T3 cities look like rural villages in China.
     
  4. PeegooFeng41

    PeegooFeng41 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Do not conflate so many thing together. Start-ups, cities are one thing and defense is another.

    Remember 50s China? They had nothing yet they had hydrogen bomb and long range missile. They kept USA at bay.

    We need to do something similar as far as our defense situation goes. Build capabilities which will help us defend ourself in an asymmetric fashion. Invest in research around those means. Invest in defense research in general.

    Secondly, coming to other items. Forget high class cities etc, build what produces money. Remember 70s and early 80s China? They had and still have sweat shops. Places which produce items for local consumption and exports.

    Chinese cities, startups etc are not actually built on their prosperity buy on massive internal debt. We do not need to replicate that. We need to produce assets not symbols. Keep enough assets and keep defense items which provide asymmetric safety against China and we will do well. We do not need so many fifth generation fighters as we need weapons against china which will make them fear losing all. Fortunately they have a lot of loose now. I say we test those H-Bomb once and for all and show the world that we mean business.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017 at 10:17 PM
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  5. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Most technology for weapons is bought from other countries, not developed in Russia. Nightsights from the French, Drones from Israel.
     
  6. PeegooFeng41

    PeegooFeng41 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I guess Russians produce their own engines and stealth engines too.
     
  7. ranadd

    ranadd FULL MEMBER

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    I beg to differ.

    All those things need to be seen in one context. They all reflect back into state/government policies.

    Sub divisions

    1. How the policies drive the work is created and executed.
    2. Who gets to execute the work? Right now, by default it is PSU. UNIONIZED PSUs
    3. Say Government wants to give to private, why there is a clause to show they are ALREADY capable? I mean, you do not allow them to do that.
    4. Fine, they should have taken initiative. But government does not allow them to manufacture for foreign parties either.
    5. Ok, again, Private is ready to spend money and make it. But still why Indian armed forces are buying from foreign providers in a unfair way.
    How? Whenever Indian armed forces buy from foreign they are ok with Initial specs and they expect addons. Not with local manufacturers
    6. Ok Ok. All good. Where is the startup comes into this. Right now startups are just for services. Like it or not, Defense products drive technology ahead. Already few players are here. But startup culture as a whole is shitty. No bankruptcy laws. No accountability laws etc etc.

    So, I see them all together.

    Also, I wont say India lacks manufacturing capability, look at Indian Auto sectors. They are functioning adequately. Still 20 or 30 years behind what the Chinese though.

    Coming to Chinese cities. They are debt ridden. They are done to keep the local populace in work. Agreed. But they also improved the infrastructure and peoples quality of life.

    India plays safe. I get it. Then stop comparing with anyone else.
     
  8. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Russians mainly stole their jet engines from other countries, but so far they have never got the technology quite right, most Russian engines do not last near as long as they do in the west and India has found out the hard way. They don't call Russian Planes like the Mig 21 fly ing coffins for nothing. One of the reasons Russian planes have one of the worst safety records in the world.
     
  9. ranadd

    ranadd FULL MEMBER

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    Whom did Russia stole from?
     
  10. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    The USA, not anything new

    Three aircraft diverted to Siberia during a raid on Japan, and were quickly ferried to the Central Aerodrome in Moscow. These aircraft, General H.H. Arnold Special, Ding How, and Ramp Tramp would be either disassembled, used for training and flight testing, or kept as a reference airframe. The reverse engineering of the B-29 would require over 100,000 components to be remanufactured, and the directive from Stalin required these aircraft to be perfect reproductions. This copy of the B-29 would become known as the Tu-4.

    This was easier said than done. The Soviet Union did not have the manufacturing ability to reproduce many parts, and either way, the B-29 used a 1/16″ aluminum skin. The Soviet Union used the metric system. Still, the reproduction was a success. Tupolev’s design team replicated the interior paint scheme, and a repair patch on the General H.H. Arnold Special was reproduced in the cloned aircraft.

    There is a story that the CIA allowed Russia to steal altered jet engine technology with some mistakes involving the bearings that Russia is still having problems with to this day.

    http://hackaday.com/2016/03/10/stolen-tech-the-soviet-superfortress/
     
  11. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Space on NBCNews.com
    Search
    Advertise
    How the Soviets stole a space shuttle
    Part 1: Moscow finds an online bonanza of information from U.S.

    [​IMG]
    RSA via NASA
    The Russian space shuttle Buran - which looked similar to the U.S. space shuttle - is perched on an Energia rocket in 1988.
    [​IMG]
    By Robert Windrem Senior investigative producer
    NBC News
    • Print



    Nov. 4, 1997 — When U.S. space shuttles started linking up with Russia's Mir space station in 1995, both sides owed a small debt to the old Soviet secret police, the KGB. According to documents obtained by NBC News, it was the KGB that successfully stole the U.S. shuttle design in the '70s and '80s.

    That theft permitted the Soviet Union to build its own carbon copy of the U.S. system, called the Buran, thus unintentionally laying the groundwork for the compatibility between the U.S. and Russian systems.

    Although the Soviet shuttle flew only once in 1990, it was planned in part as a space ferry to link up with Mir. That all-Soviet linkup never took place, and the Soviet shuttle was finally abandoned in 1994. But because the Soviet craft was so similar to the U.S. version, designing a Mir linkup for Atlantis and other U.S. shuttles proved simple and efficient. In fact, the first linkup between the Mir and the shuttle Atlantis in 1995 used the very system the Russians designed for their own shuttle.

    The story of the Soviet shuttle is really the story of the competition between the two great space powers in microcosm, complete with Cold War intrigue and paranoia, mirror-image competition and all manner of spies, both human and electronic. It may also be the first recorded example of spying online.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/18686090/...how-soviets-stole-space-shuttle/#.WNA84YWcGM8
     
  12. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Russian KGB said there main military research was done by the USA. Why pay for it when you can steal it. Matter of fact think they said their main source for new technology was the US Patent Office
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017 at 2:34 AM
  13. kiduva21

    kiduva21 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    just cool down a bit and enjoy an indo russian song its new:russia::india::respect:
     
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  14. YarS

    YarS 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Guys, of course, you can buy any technologies, but for a normal price (not only in money). Don't be greedy, friends, remember story about Golden Antelope.
     
  15. YarS

    YarS 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    @Averageamerican , do you want to say, that there was autopilot option on Space Shuttle and option for unmanned landing?

    Also there were big difference in the take off - SS used his own engines (and his largest object is fuel tank), and our "Energia" with RD-170 engines was normal rocket, with "Buran" as cargo on the first stages of take-off.
    [​IMG]
     

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