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Russia offers MiG 35 to India, after Bangladesh : Bangladeshi Media

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by lca-fan, Jun 26, 2017.

  1. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Russia offers MiG 35 to India, after Bangladesh : Bangladeshi Media
    Published June 26, 2017 SOURCE: DHAKA TRIBUNE

    [​IMG]

    Experts say the fourth generation MiG 35 is a vastly updated version of the earlier MiG 29 series specialised aircrafts. After first offering to sell the advanced MiG 35 fighter plane to Bangladesh in April this year, Russia has now offered the same to India.

    First publicly presented at the 2007 Bangalore air show, the MiG 35 has since been much improved. According to one report, during Indian Defence Minister Arun Jaitley’s last visit to Moscow, officials of both countries discussed the possibility of India purchasing the plane to enhance its air force.

    Experts say the fourth generation MiG 35 is a vastly updated version of the earlier MiG 29 series specialised aircrafts. It has highly advanced avionics and weapons systems, including the NESA radar. It has a multi-role profile and its new location system enables it to operate freely from inputs provided from ground, adding to its operational flexibility.

    Interestingly enough, of all the countries in South Asia, Russia first offered to sell the plane to Bangladesh. The proposal was made right after the recent Hasina-Modi summit meeting on April 7 this year, where it was announced that the Indian government would extend a special $500 million line of credit to Bangladesh to enable it to strengthen its armed forces.

    In addition to Bangladesh, Afghanistan has also secured much needed weapons for its army with India’s help via a similar arrangement.

    At the time, the BNP had alleged that the Bangladesh government would end using the Indian line of credit to pay for obsolete arms and weapons. Bangladesh should not buy “old Russian warplanes,” BNP members had said, adding that India’s motives were “suspect”.

    The opposition leaders had further alleged that there were some undeclared, hidden clauses in the deal worked out between Prime Ministers Sheikh Hasina and Narendra Modi and had urged that these be made public.

    In the case of the MiG 35, however, the BNP’s charges do not seem convincing. Bangladesh and India aside, Egypt has already ordered 46 MiG 35s under a $2.5 billion deal with Russia. Each plane costs around $46 million. Other countries, including the UAE, which is in the process of signing a memorandum of understanding with Russia, and Kazhakstan, have also expressed interest. Had the plane been truly “obsolete” as the BNP claimed, this would never have been the case.

    The allegation of obsolescence is further weakened by the Nizhni Novgorod Russian MiG producing unit’s current record: A reported 11,000 have been sold abroad out of an aggregate of 45,000 planes in 2016.

    India too has just concluded a $10.5 billion arms purchasing deal with Russia.

    In terms of Bangladesh, there is little doubt that between India and China there is a clear economic rivalry concerning project implementation, securing of orders and various other issues, including the sale of arms. China enjoys a big lead. Though India has pressed for a 25-year Defence Pact with Bangladesh, Prime Minister Hasina did not accept. While Bangladesh is keen to maintain cordial relations with its neighbours, it also clearly does not wish to put all its eggs in one basket.

    Irrespective, Bangladesh is reportedly looking into buying 8 MiG 35s in the first phase.

    http://idrw.org/russia-offers-mig-35-to-india-after-bangladesh-bangladeshi-media/#more-139240 .
     
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  2. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    MIG 35s now come with AESA & "SPECTRA" like ACTIVE CANCELLATION and can include KHIBNEY from SU35 which fried USS Donald Cook's electronics.

    Should we buy MIG 35s directly without any MII to bolster IAF SQDNS numbers?

    I think we should as it is cost effective @ $46 million/ Mig35 it will help boosting SQDNS numbers without breaking bank. We could negotiate for better engines (tech. from item 30 of PAKFA should improve engines which are the main culprit for MIG29/29k problems) and built quality. Further it can use Mig29 infrastructure and training module to further cut costs. 147 or 7 sqns with all infrastructre, weapons & spares should not cost more that $12 billion, which could be a huge saving.What say?
     
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  3. zebra7

    zebra7 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Cheaper to buy, but costlier to operate and in the long run overshoot the Costlier, western aircraft in costing. Why would we go for the MIG 35, when

    1. We need the platform specially for the A2G role, with multirole capability, and not the Air superiority aircraft.

    2. MIG 29UPG is at par with the MIG 35, provided the AESA Radar from the Zhuk is added.

    3. We don't want to put all the eggs in one basket, and is increasing the weapon source/provider.

    4. Aircraft is maintainance intensive, and IAF have bad experience with the MIG 29 B.
     
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  4. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    MIG 29/29Ks had problems with their engines but Klimov has come up with newer engines with better life and thrust 88kn:

    RD-33MK[edit]
    [​IMG]
    RD-33MK


    The RD-33MK "Morskaya Osa" (Russian: Морская Оса: "Sea Wasp") is the latest model developed in 2001. It is intended to power the MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB shipborne fighters, however it has also been adopted for the MiG-35. The RD-33MK develops 7% higher thrust, is digitally controlled FADEC and smokeless unlike earlier RD-33 engines, has increased afterburner thrust to 9,000 kilograms-force (88,000 N; 20,000 lbf) and dry weight 1,145 kilograms (2,524 lb) compared to the baseline model through modern materials used on the cooled blades, although it retains the same length and maximum diameter. Incorporated is an infrared and optical signature visibility reduction systems. Service life has been increased to 4,000 hours. The RD-33MK ensures shipborne fighters unassisted take-off capability, retain performance in hot climate environment and, naturally, a boost in combat efficiency for MiG-29 fighter latest variant.


    This one has 88kn thrust & FADEC..........
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
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  5. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    I don't accept those quoted figures for a moment, NO WAY will India be able to get them for $46m/unit and if it does there is somethign desperatly wrong with the deal and much will have been ommited from the deal.

    Russia is not some anomoly, you get what you pay for and if you pay less you get less, India has learnt this the hard way and I seriously doubt anyone is foolish enough to fall for this trap again.

    Look at the direction India's procurements have gone in recent times- expensive (but needed) PBLs signed with every major new deal, this I feel is in direct response to the mess India has faced from Russian-origin equipment (namely MKI and MiG-29/K), the Russians aren't going to be able to exploit Indian ignorance anymore.


    When you strip the cost advantadge from the MiG-35 it can't compete with anything in its class on merit and it will never be ordered by India.
     
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  6. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Dear Russia, give us a production line in India, that includes all spares, let us integrate the Kaveri / Snecma engine and Uttam AESA and we will buy them for IAF and IN. Other than that, thx but no thx!
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
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  7. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Russia will never allow it, the radar and engines are the two most expensive single items on the MiG-35.
     
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  8. YarS

    YarS Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    "Give" is a wrong word. I preffer word "sale". Of course, we can sell you all production lines and even a schools and colleges for workers, but it will cost much more.
     
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  9. YarS

    YarS Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Never say never. Really it's a question of price, but I doubt you are ready to pay full price (not only in money).
     
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  10. shaktimaan

    shaktimaan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    MiG is going to be history :p
     
  11. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    What are you trying to say? India has paid full price plue whatever additional cost the Russian side invents at the last moment for every system so far.
     
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  12. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Doubt that too, but that's the only chance they have. The only advantage they have is the amount of customization they give us compared to western counterparts. So if we can get them to agree to the next level of customization (Indian radar and engine on a Russian fighter), it would counter the shortcomings of the Mig as a fighter (old design, large RCS, limited internal fuel and weaponstations...).
     
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  13. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Sad to see that 10 years later we are still having the same discussions bro, speculating about the Mig-35/Rafale, these matters should have been settled long ago and we should be seeing inductions right now!
     
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  14. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Tell me about it, it's insane but that's the reality when politics and egoistic companies come into play. Just feel bad for IAF and their pilots and it's kind of strange to see Air Chief Dhanoa begging for new fighters and at the same time urge his forces to prepare for a 2 front war, as if anybody believes that would be realistic.
     
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  15. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    It's not strange, it is the nature of being an Indian service chief, they can only fight with what they have and have ZERO power to actually give their men what they need to complete the objectives the civilian leadership imposes on them. This is what happens when the civlian leadership takes their ownership of the military too far and denies the military even a seat at the decsion making level and this is also why I have little hope for the future; why would the civlians be willing to undertake reforms that cede even the slightest bit of power to the military where planning and procurement is concerned?

    I've said it before and I'll say it for the rest of my days (sadly), India perfectly reflects the saying; "Nowhere else have I seen such brave lions being led by such lambs." - Commander Max von Gallwitz
     

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