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Russia Points Out Gap in UK Defenses

Discussion in 'The Americas' started by layman, Jan 8, 2014.

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  1. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Battle stations! Navy scrambles destroyer to challenge Russian warship off British coast (but it takes 24 hours to make 600-mile journey from Portsmouth base - was Putin testing our response time?)

    Russian vessel detected 30 miles away from Scotland last night
    Only ship available to respond was on south coast of England
    Tensions heightened when aerial photos showed ship full of missiles

    [​IMG]

    A fully armed Royal Navy warship was scrambled to challenge a missile-carrying Russian vessel in the waters off Britain just days before Christmas, defence sources revealed last night.

    In a calculated test of Britain’s reduced naval capacity in the North Sea, the Russian warship came within 30 miles of the coast.

    It was detected nearing Scotland, but the only ship the Royal Navy had available to respond after Ministry of Defence cuts was in Portsmouth, resulting in a delay of 24 hours until it was in position.

    The threatening approach towards Britain’s territorial waters triggered a top-secret Navy and Air Force operation co-ordinated by the military top brass at the Permanent Joint Headquarters (PJHQ) bunker at Northwood, just outside London.

    RAF reconnaissance aircraft tracked the progress of the Russian warship as it neared north-east Scotland, and the tension heightened when aerial photographs revealed the ship was carrying a full payload of guided missiles.

    Commanders at PJHQ decided to send the new Type 45 destroyer HMS Defender, which is Britain’s immediate-response ship during a national security crisis.

    The Russian ship waited in the Moray Forth, a stretch of water that flows into Loch Ness, for Defender to arrive, as if her captain were recording the Navy’s response times.

    At the time, Defender was in dock at Portsmouth. Her crew were forced to make the 600-mile journey around the coastline, because budget cutbacks mean there are no maritime patrol vessels sailing off Scotland.

    A defence source said: ‘This was no exercise – the Russian ship was behaving very aggressively in a stretch of water bordering Britain’s territorial waters.

    ‘They were watched very closely by the RAF and it was agreed that HMS Defender should block the Russians’ passage.

    [​IMG]

    Defender was fully equipped with Sea Viper surface-to-air missiles and guns capable of firing 40kg shells as far as 18 miles. Her captain and crew knew this was the real deal and were prepared to engage.’

    A tense stand-off ensued when Defender reached the Moray Firth. While the MoD last night declined to explain the specific international protocols adhered to at such a delicate moment, The Mail on Sunday understands the crews exchanged radio messages in an attempt to establish each other’s intentions.

    No shots were fired but Defender’s 190-strong crew remained at battle stations throughout the confrontation.

    The British crew then watched as the Russian ship retreated. They followed it north to the Baltic Sea, where a Russian task force was on legitimate manoeuvres. Defender then sailed back to Scotland, docking in Glasgow on Friday.

    Last night, Russian expert Jonathan Eyal, from the military think-tank the Royal United Services Institute, said Russia had intended to intimidate Britain.

    [​IMG]

    He added: ‘The Russian fleet, which is growing in strength and expanding its sphere of influence, wanted to show a presence in the North Sea and sail as close as possible to the national sea boundary.

    ‘The Russians knew exactly what they were doing. They were saying, “We are back in business in the North Sea and we are powerful.â€

    ‘They knew how far they could sail before they would be required to withdraw.

    ‘The Russians may also be inspecting nuclear installations in Scotland, with a view towards the independence referendum. Certainly the Russians would see the country as more vulnerable if it were no longer part of Britain.

    ‘The approach was part of a pattern of behaviour, and the action is more threatening when considered in this context.

    ‘Last year Russian military jets approached Swedish airspace and only withdrew when the Swedes scrambled their aircraft.’

    After the confrontation between Defender and the Russian ship, which is believed to have begun on December 20, the Russian military news agency Interfax-AVN released a statement claiming that the vessel was sheltering in the Moray Firth because of adverse weather conditions.

    This is the second such incident in two years. In December 2011, the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov, anti-submarine ship Admiral Chabanenko and escort ship Yaroslav Mudry sailed close to Scotland before being challenged by the Royal Navy.

    Defender is the fifth of the Navy’s six state-of-the-art Type 45 destroyers – she was built in Glasgow, which is one of her two affiliated cities. The other is Exeter.

    The MoD refused to comment last night for operational reasons.

    More Info
     
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  2. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Call for clarity over Russian naval visit
    [​IMG]



    THE SNP has called on the Ministry of Defence to clarify whether or not the pre-Christmas Russian naval visit off the Scottish coast included several vessels from the Admiral Kuznetsov naval task force.

    With no conventional Royal Navy surface vessels based in or on operations around Scotland, the ministry deployed a Fleet Ready Escort vessel from Portsmouth, over 600 miles away, to escort the Russian vessels from British waters.

    The Nationalists have pointed out that if it were confirmed the Russian vessels were part of an Admiral Kuznetsov task force, then it would be the second time in two years that the Navy has had to conduct such an escort duty so close to Scotland.

    Russian TV reports have shown film of the Admiral Kuznetsov apparently being refuelled off Scotland. Captain Vadim Serga, spokesman for the Russian Northern Fleet's, said a deployed naval group had included "the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Soviet Union Fleet Admiral Kuznetsov, the large anti-submarine ship Admiral Levchenko, the large assault ship Olenegorsky Gornyak, as well as support vessels such as the rescue towboat Nikolai Chiker and the tankers Sergei Osipov and Kama".

    Angus Robertson, the SNP leader at Westminster, said: "We welcome friends from Russia and elsewhere but it is intolerable that there are no UK conventional naval vessels or maritime patrol aircraft in Scotland to perform basic escort duties.

    "This is not the first time that a vessel has had to be scrambled from the south coast of England to steam for 24 hours at high speed for 600 miles to fulfil necessary escort tasks."


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  3. jonas

    jonas Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    This sort of thing was a common occurence during the 'cold war', this time all it means is Russia saying 'we are on the rise again' as a threat it means nothing whatsoever.

    Angus Robertson though will use this for his own ends,i.e. political propaganda for his own party,and the referendum.

    It also though may benefit the UK,as we all know that scrapping the MRA4 MPA was a huge mistake. We also know that government has a group with the MOD led by the RN, looking at what replacement is needed. Whispers are that Posiedon is the front runner,all we can do is wait and hope the money is forthcoming.
     
  4. venureddy

    venureddy Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Russians want to show the western countries that they were back.:respect:
     
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  5. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Russia has 1/10 the military budget and 1/8 the GDP of the USA, its not a real concern any longer.
     
  6. he-man

    he-man Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    what are ur views on china??

    and any possible russia-china-india alliance after a brics development bank comes into being??
     
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  7. venureddy

    venureddy Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    and that will be more than a real concern for usa:smitten:
     
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  8. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    As China gets more aggressive and wants to expand its logical choice is going to be into Russia and India, already China occupies a 100,000 sq miles of India. Russia and India has nothing to fear from the USA but every thing to fear from China.
     
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  9. he-man

    he-man Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    what a joke!!
    china will not dare make india too against it completely as its already surrounded by too many unfriendly powers.it will do the opposite as u will see in the future
     
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  10. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    China has territorial claims to nearly 20 countries


    17.07.2012





    China has territorial claims to nearly 20 countries. 47554.jpeg

    Chinese leader Mao Zedong not only built a strong country but also outlined a global goal: "We must conquer the globe where we will create a powerful state." Today, China has territorial claims to all its neighbors. Naturally, the U.S. is dreaming of becoming a mediator in resolving disputes in the region. But it seems that Beijing absolutely does not care about their opinion.

    Burma, Laos, Northern India, Vietnam, Nepal, Bhutan, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, the Ryukyu Islands, 300 islands of the South China, East China and Yellow Seas, as well as Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Taiwan, South Kazakhstan, the Afghan province of Bahdashan, Transbaikalia and the Far East to South Okhotsk - here is the complete list of areas that, according to Zedong, were lost due to the fall of the Qing empire. All of these countries and regions combined exceed the territory of modern China. Not all complaints are voiced by the Government of China in the international arena, but within the country the imperialist ambitions have not been lost, but rather, are actively promoted.

    The PRC authorities talk out loud only about the areas that, at least theoretically, can be taken away from Japan and Korea. Tokyo is regularly frustrated not only because of the travel of the Russian leaders to the Kuril Islands, but also about the Chinese ships freely entering the disputed Senkaku Islands waters. Beijing believes that the Islands are called Diaoyu, and they belonged to China, but the malicious Japanese tricked the U.S. into giving them to Japan because after World War II the uninhabited archipelago was in the US jurisdiction.

    Significant reserves of natural gas were found on the islands. For the growing industry of China and stagnant Japan it is more than a serious argument in favor of the struggle for the archipelago, no matter what it is called. Not to mention the fish that is found there in large quantities. To date, the only agreement the parties have reached in the negotiations is on the joint development of oil fields. In addition, if the Japanese behave more or less decently, the Chinese are regularly caught for illegal fishing in the area.

    Any territorial dispute, but rather, its resolution, is a serious precedent. If China's claim in respect of at least one territory from the list of the "lost" is satisfied, the Chinese machine would be unstoppable. Despite the fact that the Chinese are very pleased to partner with Russia and have always supported Russia in the UN Security Council, in person, on the sidelines, its diplomats supposedly jokingly hint to their Russian colleagues: you must understand that soon you will have to share the Far East? China has more than a billion people, while Russia's vast territory barely has 150 million.

    These dangerous trends - demographic, and as a result, geopolitical - must sound scary to the Russian government, but so far it seems that it is happy with the fact that Beijing makes territorial claims only to Seoul and Tokyo. In 2005 Russia had already given China a bounty in the form of 337 square kilometers of land in the area of ​​Big Island (upper Argun River in the Chita region) and two sites in the vicinity of the islands Tarabarov and Big Ussuri near the confluence of the Amur and Ussuri.

    However, none of the leaders of the military departments of ASEAN that includes all debating countries agree to recognize, for example, the fact that Diaoyu belongs to Japan. Instead, the defense ministers of Vietnam, Indonesia, Australia, Thailand and Singapore urged the Japanese authorities to proceed with caution and within the framework of the international law. These countries certainly do not need a resolution to the dispute because in that case their territory will be separated from China only by perseverance of the latter.

    They are silent about the "Iodo island" (the Chinese version is Suenchzhao. - Ed) in the East China Sea. The sneaky Chinese took the principle of dividing the Arctic as an example and now claim that the underwater ridge of this tiny piece of land is under close control of the Chinese. Since the Iodo is closer to Korea, in 2003 the Koreans built an uninhabitable marine research station there. From the standpoint of the international law, this rock in general should not be the subject of a debate.

    In any case, the controversy continues, Japan and South Korea remain to be supported by their all-time ally - the United States. For the US, the unification of Southeast Asian Nations is a chance to save their own economy, because in that case the World Trade Center will move there, where currently there are no transnational corporations in the amount sufficient for the U.S.

    The success of the White House in the region does not depend on the strength that America loves to show any chance it has, but rather, diplomacy, as the countries of ASEAN and Asia-Pacific region do not trust each other or anyone outside the regional boundaries. However, Washington is trusted here because of the support of Seoul and Tokyo. However, China has already pushed Japan out of the ranks of the largest economies in the world, and the structure of the region is no longer formed on spatial basis.

    Therefore, territorial claims of China, and not Russia, India or, for example, Australia are so important for Washington. Beijing is the only capital of the world, ready to use force in the struggle for the sake of expansion. During the last ten years, while America was blowing up its financial bubble, China has not only developed the industry, but also equipped its area of ​​interest with military equipment. China has placed 38 new diesel and nuclear submarines in the region, purchased four destroyers of class "Modern" from Russia and built another dozen on its own, and has launched a network of ground-based ballistic missiles to destroy naval targets.

    Only one other country has done this before - the Soviet Union during the "Cold War". It is no wonder that the Americans are very concerned with the regular quarrels between China and its major allies. Construction of a naval base on Hainan Island does not add confidence to the U.S. The proximity to the Malacca Strait poses a threat to the smooth supply of Washington's main allies in the region - Japan, South Korea and Taiwan - this is the way the US sees the situation. The American senators have already decided that such behavior is a threat to Beijing's regional peace and stability, economic development and even "food security". The international community is well aware what usually follows such wording.

    Ilona Raskolnikova
    China has territorial claims to nearly 20 countries - English pravda.ru
     
  11. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    What about the Harpoon missiles?
     
  12. venureddy

    venureddy Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    well india will never fear US and u know that india is not same as it is in 1962.. china will not attack neither india nor russia as they what will be the consequences after that.:hmm:
     
  13. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2014
  14. jonas

    jonas Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    I suggest you look at the history between Russia and China,then at the history between India and China. Then think again,believe me any alliance between you will only be skin deep. That is until the time comes when one of you? decides the time is right to break it and pursue their own agenda.

    You make your own mind up as to which one of you will be the aggressor country.
     
  15. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    I am sure China is scared to death of India an Russia.
     
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