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Russia set to take part in new Indian submarine tender

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by flanker143, Jul 2, 2011.

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  1. flanker143

    flanker143 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    [​IMG]

    Russia will participate in a new tender on the delivery of six diesel-electric submarines for the Indian Navy, the state-run exporter Rosoboronexport said.Russia dropped out of the first Indian submarine tender in 2009.

    “There is a new tender, with the new requirements, and together with [Russia's] Rubin design bureau we are making a proposal to India for Amur 650 class submarines,â€￾ Azizov told reporters at IMDS-2011 naval show in St. Petersburg on Friday.

    Azizov said that Amur class is a fourth-generation vessel, and “Russia has all chances to win the tender.â€￾

    The Indian Navy said in February it will announce a global tender for procuring six next generation submarines worth about $11 billion by the end of 2011.

    India is building six Scorpene submarines the Mazgaon Dockyards Limited (MDL) under a deal with France’s DCNS. However, the Indian side said it would need submarines “with better stealth capability, improved detection range and combat management system.â€￾

    According to Azizov, Amur class subs match these requirements perfectly, as their sonar signature level is several times less than that of Kilo class submarines which are considered at present the most silent in the world.

    In addition, Amur 650 could be equipped with the Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) systems on the basis of fuel cells to increase considerably the endurance and cruise range in a submerged state.

    According to Indian sources, France, Germany and Spain will also participate in the tender.

    The Indian Navy is planning to commission at least 12 submarines in the next decade to strengthen its depleted submarine fleet.
     
  2. Vritra

    Vritra Major ELITE MEMBER

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    Let them in to the tender, but with nothing short of a blood sacrifice promising on-time deliveries and no contract re-negotiations and proper long-term support.
     
  3. SpArK

    SpArK SorCeroR Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Who are the other contenders and which one is the best?
     
  4. RoYaN

    RoYaN Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    German U214 is the other contender!!
     
  5. flanker143

    flanker143 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    RFI has been issued to four companies -- navantia , rdb ,hdw and dcns which will be fielding their s70 class, amur class , u 214 class respectively it is not sure what dcns has on offer but they might offer us the aip equipped scorpene or even marlin class....
     
  6. Nirvana

    Nirvana Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Project 75 I

    RFP Issued to Rosoboronexport (Russia), DCNS/Amaris (France), HDW (Germany) and Navantia (Spain)

    The Submarines will be Built Under TOT

    Three of Submarines to be Constructed at Mazgaon Dock Mumbai , One at HSL Vishakhapatnam , and Remaining two to be Imported Or Built at Private Shipyard with Foreign Assistance.
     
  7. jagjitnatt

    jagjitnatt Major ELITE MEMBER

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    I seriously feel India is stretching itself on defence deals these days. Instead of spending $12 billion on 6 submarines, India should have easily opted for 12 U-212s for as low as $6 billion. Even with ToT included, the deal should have been below $10 billion.

    Now we are spending as high as $2 billion per vessel, instead of $500 million as per my idea. We are paying 400% higher cost for no more than 10-15% more capability.

    We are no US who can spend so much per vessel. We should be spending the rest of the money on either other defence deals, or social upliftment.
     
    3 people like this.
  8. Nirvana

    Nirvana Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    14 Jul 2010: On 26 Sep 2008 a Pakistani shipyard successfully launched the first Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) submarine in the Indian Ocean, the third of its Khalid Class - Agosta 90B submarines. China meanwhile has 62 submarines of which 10 are nuclear powered.

    At the same time, NDTV reports that India will be left with only 9 old submarines by 2012 as two Russian foxtrots will be decommissioned by next year. So on 6 Jul 2010 when Indian Defence Minister A. K. Antony approved a second line of submarines - Project 75(I) to be constructed in India at a cost of 50,000 crore (US$11 billion), it came as a good surprise, doubly so because it is expected to boost private sector contribution in naval projects. In this regard, Manu Sood, Editor 8ak interviewed Maj Gen (retd) Bhupinder Yadav, who heads a small group of retired ex-servicemen in a Defence and Aerospace consulting company Q-tech Synergy.

    8ak: How many submarines does the Indian Navy plan to have?

    Yadav: The Indian Navy proposes to have a mix of twenty-four nuclear and conventional submarines of the SSK type. With 6 Scorpene and a further 6 Project-75(I) , the remaining 12 subs will be of an indigenous design.

    The Indian navy is also planning to build micro-submarines for its strategic operations. An RFP was issued in Nov 2009 to Indian shipyards including Hindustan Shipyards Limited, ABG and Pipavav shipyards, Larsen & Toubro and state-owned Mazagon Docks Limited (MDL). Indian Navy is planning to get five of these vessels at a cost of about $80 million but the inductions can be doubled later on.

    8ak: Why is the price almost US$2 billion per submarine whereas strategypage reports US$350 for an AIP submarine?

    Yadav: The 2005, Scorpene diesel submarines deal was signed, with an option for 6 more and extensive technology transfer agreements was reported as being in excess of $4 billion. The Proj 75(I) is a Rs 50,000 crore ($10.7 bn) project for building six vessels. These will be new submarine and not the Scorpene and will be a bigger submarine with specific features with key differentiator being a new class of missiles, having some features from the HDW Type 214, the Russian Amur class, the Italian Fincantieri S-1000 in collaboration with Rubin of Russia. The extra cost could be for the new design that will allow the incorporation of future technologies, stealth features, missiles, transfer of technology, Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) and land attack capabilities.

    8ak: Why did India not go in for a nuclear submarine instead of diesel electric?

    Yadav: The utility of conventional diesel-electric submarines with the introduction of AIP (air-independent propulsion) systems like the French company DCNS' MESMA (Module d'Energie Sous-Marine Autonome) and German fuel cells, even the durations they can stay underwater can be increased substantially. They also have the added advantages of being smaller and cheaper than nuclear submarines. Another reason could have been the recent accident on Submarines both in Russia and India.

    8ak: Why are others like Fincanteri, BAE Systems and US manufacturers not in the deal?

    Yadav: RFI was sent to French DCNS, Spanish Navantia, Russian Rubin, Italy's Fincantieri and German HDW (now owned by Thyssenkrup). Great Britain and America only build nuclear submarines and not diesel electric.

    8ak: The RFI was written up a couple of years ago, so why the delay?

    Yadav: RFI was issued on 27 October 2008 for six diesel-electric attack submarines to be built in Indian shipyard, public or private, with special emphasis on full transfer of technology. The subs were to be equipped with air-independent propulsion (AIP) boosting their operational capabilities to have high degree of stealth, land-attack capability and ability to incorporate futuristic technologies. Since this will be a new type of submarine, the details and processing of project of this size does take time. Beside 3 reasons which delayed the project.

    * Some stray thought why not go for nuclear submarines, which has its own advantage and disadvantages such as vastly improved range and speeds, but are noisy hence no stealthy operations.
    * Time was also wasted on Pull and Push for this crucial programme by the public or private sector. Navy pressing to opt for a shipyard other than the Mazagon Docks, which has its hands full and has been delaying most of the projects.
    * Some friendly countries have been trying to put pressure that the additional submarine be procured from them. Hence the delay in RFP.

    8ak: Why is the Indian private sector so enthusiastic about this announcement?

    Yadav: Public sector shipyards like Mazgaon dock running at full capacity and behind schedule. L&T's excellent performance in the construction of the nuclear submarine and smaller submarine projects has given the Navy and the ministries the confidence in the private sector's ability to deliver quality vessels, systems and on deliver as per schedule. Minimum of one submarine will be built at a private shipyard and a some sub-systems will be supplied by the private sector boosting indigenous capabilities.

    8ak - Indian Defence News
     
  9. Dilemma

    Dilemma Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Even with ToT, I doubt Indian shipyards will be able to incorporate all the latest cutting-edge technology gained from this deal into future projects.
     
  10. Nirvana

    Nirvana Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Maybe the High Cost will be Because of TOT

    The New Submarines will have Following Features

     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2011
  11. ColdPlay

    ColdPlay Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    But WIKI says the unit cost is $100million,probably an error.
     
  12. xXX-Nair:::Saab-XXx

    xXX-Nair:::Saab-XXx Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    German Subs are best in the WORLD...
     
  13. xXX-Nair:::Saab-XXx

    xXX-Nair:::Saab-XXx Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    AMUR Class is not yet Complete...how can u offer it when it is Still not BUILT & Used by Russians themselves...& yes U-212 is much better...
     
  14. RoYaN

    RoYaN Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    They were the best,not any more
    Amur class is by far the best.
     
  15. xXX-Nair:::Saab-XXx

    xXX-Nair:::Saab-XXx Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    AMUR is not yet Built...& we all know the Russian Subs Quality...
     
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