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Russia to offer Skat UCAV tech to India?

Discussion in 'Indian Defence Industry' started by brahmos_ii, Nov 14, 2013.

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  1. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Well we try to work around the problem of TOT here

    see this is not a developed tech that we are talking about

    this is a cancelled project which is being revived - the tech needs to be developed tested and that means funds

    what we should ask for is joint development on the lines of Brahmos missile venture -
    a co to be formed in india
    the tech and products to be developed in india with joint indian and russian teams
    products to be manufactured in india
    with equal ownership for the tech developed
    and some firm buying commitment from both india and russia

    i think this will address the issues to a large extent
     
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  2. brahmos_ii

    brahmos_ii Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Good nice idea, how many BRAHMOS we sold to Russia, ZERO.....
     
  3. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    right but the main point here is to ensure that the tech is absorbed by us and remains with us

    if you read the article it means that russia is ready to sell the same to us - and the question was of TOT

    going by this idea will give us TECH and wether russia buys them will be a bonus
     
  4. brahmos_ii

    brahmos_ii Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    When you are doing some R & D why you want to take the tech from a failed product...
     
  5. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    well it is not a failed product - it is a shelved project maybe due to funds

    also for R&D we are not looking at doing R&D on our own - when Russain team comes over it brings a lots of knowledge and experience which they will apply to R&D and that knowledge / experience - is more important than Transfer of designs

    Also it will help us develop the R&D infrastructure for this product line - testing facilities etc and will open up a few areas for furthur indegenous R&D on related tech areas
     
  6. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    ultimately lets make a decision in timely manner for once

    ultimately for us it is a question of choosing the lesser devil

    besides what are the competing options
     
  7. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel REGISTERED

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    I agree to what you say, but then how do you ensure that there is complete ToT ?
    There is no fool proof method for this, unless you get your own people employed in the company in France.
    This is case with Russians, with French and with every other nation.

    The French might soon asking for more for ToT, they are not going to produce Rafale any more, at least France has cut down the numbers and producing the small numbers is going to be loss making for Dassault unless they get bigger order. And in this situation, they can be in position to transfer the technology to India but that might be same as killing the golden hen.
    Ideally they can just sell the plane and give kits for assembling and then demand high price for ToT which after a few years might not be the cutting edge technology, but being used commonly by everyone
     
  8. kaku

    kaku BANNED BANNED

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    Firstly we need to setup a team that check what kind of tech. used in Rafale and a team of DRDO and HAL that check what kind of tech. we required for our future projects.

    If the french accept the offer to give the full tech. of there radars and engine, then we have to sign this deal in first hand.

    We have to decide the critical tech. which we need for LCA MK 2 and MCA.
     
  9. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel REGISTERED

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    My friend, I do not disagree that whoever promises to give ToT we do business with them, but have the Russians not promised the same and not delivered the technology?
     
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  10. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Also the second india of trying to convert the Tejas into a full fledgged drone seems more attractive

    the US is trying to do the same with is F-16 and has some successful test flights

    lets experiment with the LSP series tejas to do the same there is great news

    another italian firm - Piaggio Aero - is doing the same with its P.180 twin prop business aircraft

    Best part is Tata group holds 44.5% equity in the firm - maybe we can offer developmental work to tata group in joint venture with HAL / DRDO for the project and get the LSP tejas converted to UCAV's

    http://www.indiandefence.com/forums...e-ups-its-stake-drone-maker-piaggio-aero.html
     
  11. kaku

    kaku BANNED BANNED

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    It is a long term plan, but firstly let the pilots to fly this thing.
     
  12. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    no it is not long term plan - its about technology and capability

    if a full sized business jet could be successfully converted to drones then think of the possibilities

    1. Tejas can be converted to UCAV's
    2. It could also be UCAV's and remotely guided ( not actual flying guidance but targeting, redirecting / retargeting ) from gound or from Two seater SU30Mki's or Two Seater FGFA etc r even from TWO seater AMCA or AWACS platform.
    3. Then along with it we can also go for Unmanned Helicopters (Unmanned Dhruv - or Unmanned LUH) for delivering supplies to SIachen etc army posts and reduce loss of life due to heli crash in bad weather etc ( this can also be applied in case of natural calamities where a lot of Drone helicopters can be risked in bad weather to send supplies to stranded people )

    Yes it will take time to develop fighter / interceptor control logic / algorithms but for that to happen we should start the project now
     
  13. kaku

    kaku BANNED BANNED

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    You are saying the fighter which still going for IOC-2 and FOC. Because of this MoD put MCA and MK-2 at on hold, and you want to convert this fighter in UCAV in current scenario.
     
  14. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Yeah - the project should begin now

    Well you know the Tejas will actually clear the IOC -2 there is no problem with its flying abilities
    The FOC as per my understanding will be carried out after its induction in IAF - and also with the help of IAF the FOC is to be cleared

    If we begin this project now then within 3 years when Tejas MK2 and Naval Tejas comes to be Inducted we will be ready to deploy this technology of UCAV on both Tejas MK2 and Naval Tejas

    otherwise if we go serially and then do things in the usual way you can be sure that by the time the tech is develped - Teaj may be nearing a phase out from service

    Also i am saying that we should involve the Tata Group (pvt sector) as they may be able to bring in some tech / experience / knowhow from their investment in the Piaggio Aero project

    Must be thinking - Ambitious - right

    But i am from Gujarat - never learned to dream small
     
  15. kaku

    kaku BANNED BANNED

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    Really, in a condition when all other project is suspended.

    IOC-2 just doesnt means the flying abilities, if that so then it will pass this condition in 2001, when first prototype flown.

    In short tIt actually means the plane can fire missiles and go for ground bombs. And FOC means it is now worthy for IAF pilots, and there is no more requirement of test pilots.
    The Roustom already in development from 6 yrs, at it yet to be inducted.
    The LCA is a supersonic plane, and converting it into a UCAV is not a easy task, we have to redesign the whole design, means there is no need of cockpit and required a dome for antenna.

    Means there is whole redesigning the plane.
    Gujarat or anywhere, it doesnt matter to me, the only thing matter to me to be Indian. But sometimes we need be practical rather ambitious.
     
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