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Saab Gripen : News And Discussions

Discussion in 'The Americas' started by Picard, Jun 1, 2012.

  1. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    What big load? It's MTOW is 16,500kg, it weighs 8,000kg empty* and the next 3,400kg is fuel. So that leaves 5,100kg of external load but since it has a fuel fraction less than 30%, half of that will be fuel, leaving room for ~2,500kg of weapons, minus 200kg for a targeting pod. Overall leaving it no better than an F-16 as regards load bearing.

    *Page 4 -http://www.saabgroup.com/Global/Documents and Images/Air/Gripen/Technical brochure, Gripen NG, English.pdf

    Typhoon carries 7,500kg externally* and has a much bigger internal fuel fraction and lower SFC and is less affected by external load because it's a bigger aircraft with more powerful engines.

    *Eurofighter Typhoon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Eurofighter Typhoon – Wikipedia

    Typhoon / Gripen NG
    Empty Weight - 10,500kg / 8,000kg (Typhoon is 31.25% heavier)
    Loaded Weight - 15,500kg / 11,400kg (Typhoon 36% heavier)
    Fuel Fraction - 32.25% / 29.8% (Typhoon 10% better)
    SFC - 0.74lb/lbf.hr / 0.78lb/lbf.hr (F414 has 3-4% improvement over F404)
    TWR - 1.2 / 0.88 (Typhoon 36% higher)
    Wing loading - 61.9lb/ft^2 / 77.7lb/ft^2

    Gripen NG is a terrible, terrible aircraft. Worse than the JAS-39C variant kinematically. When it claims supercruise, I can't see it supercruising whilst carrying anything with that TWR.

    Typhoon / F-16C / Gripen NG
    Dry Thrust - 27,000lbf / 17,155lbf / 13,000lbf (out next decade, 6th gen):rofl:
     
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  2. sunny6611

    sunny6611 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    can ya give details on :

    rafale ( the variant IAF is going to have) has max life limited to.........
    F16 has max life limited to.........
    f18 has max life limited to.........
    f22 has max life limited to.........
    f35 has max life limited to.........
    mig 35 has max life limited to.........
    su 35 has max life limited to.........
    mig 29 has max life limited to.............
    mirage 2000 has max life limited to.........
    su 30 has max life limited to.........
    jags has max life limited to.........
    tejas has max life limited to.........
     
  3. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Empty weight is not 8000Kg.
    Jas 39 Gripen NG
     
  4. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Dude, it's 8,000kg. This is direct from Saab themselves. See black box on page 3.

    http://www.saabgroup.com/Global/Documents and Images/Air/Gripen/Technical brochure, Gripen NG, English.pdf

    LENGTH 15.2 m
    WIDTH 8.6 m
    MASS WHEN EMPTY 8,000 kg
    INTERNAL FUEL CAPACITY 3,400 kg
    MAX. TAKE-OFF WEIGHT 16,500 kg
    MAX. THRUST 98 kN
    MIN. TAKE-OFF DISTANCE 500 m
    LANDING DISTANCE 600 m

    MAX. SPEED AT SEA LEVEL > 1,400 km/h
    MAX. SPEED AT HIGH ALTITUDE Mach 2
    SUPERCRUISE CAPABILITY Yes
    MAX. SERVICE ALTITUDE > 16,000 m
    FERRY RANGE 4,000 km
    G-LIMITS +9G/-3G
    HARDPOINTS 10
    COMBAT TURNAROUND AIR-TO-AIR 10 min
    FULL ENGINE REPLACEMENT <1 hour

    Wrong, it's 5,000kg internal fuel, which is 6,215L.

    Eurofighter Typhoon – Wikipedia

    Gripen NG has just 3,400kg of internal fuel

    Should be:

    Specifications and performance data - Dassault Aviation

    Fuel Fraction
    Typhoon (5000/ (10500 +5000)): 0.323
    Rafale (4700/ (10000 +4700)): 0.320 (using 10t from Dassault link or 0.331 using 9,500kg)
    F-22 (18,000/61,340): 0.293
    Gripen NG(3400/ (8000 +3400)): 0.298

    With 6 Meteor and 2 SRAAMs each

    MICA - 112kg
    ASRAAM - 88kg
    IRIS-T - 88kg
    Meteor - 188kg
    AMRAAM - 356lbs
    AIM-9 - 200lb
    Cannon ammo for F-22 = 584lb on basic empty weight, already included in empty weight on other fighters.

    Fuel Fraction+AAMs
    Typhoon (5000/ (10500 +5000+ 176 + 1128 )): 0.30
    Rafale (4700/ (10000 +4700+ 224 + 1128)): 0.29 (using 10t from Dassault link or 0.30 using 9,500kg)
    F-22 (18,000/64,460): 0.28
    Gripen NG(3400/ (8000 +3400+ 176 + 1128)): 0.27

    TWR+AAMs
    Typhoon (40500/2.2)/(10500 + 176 + 1128 + 5000): 1.10
    F-22 70,000/(61340 + 400 + 2136 + 576): 1.09
    Rafale (34000/2.2)/(10000 + 224 + 1128 + 4700): 0.96 (0.99 using 9500kg)
    Gripen NG (22000/2.2)/(8000 + 176 + 1128 + 3400): 0.79 :rofl: 6th gen Saab

    Clearly only two platforms make and exceed TWR parity with a full AAM loadout.

    Wing Loading+AAMs
    Typhoon (10500 + 176 + 1128 + 5000)*2.2/551: 67.1lb/ft^2
    Rafale (10000 + 224 + 1128 + 4700)*2.2/: 71.8lb/ft^2 (69.5lb/ft^2 using 9500kg)
    F-22 (61340 + 400 + 2136 + 576)/: 76.7lb/ft^2
    Gripen NG (8000 + 176 + 1128 + 3400)*2.2/: 86.5lb/ft^2 :rofl: 6th gen Saab

    Radar
    F-22: 1,956 T/R Modules
    Typhoon: 1,500 T/R Modues***
    Rafale: 1,000 T/R Modules
    Gripen NG: 1,000? T/R Modules***

    ***Swashplate mounted.

    Avionics (HMD/IRST/RF attack/360deg LOAL)
    F-22: NO/NO/YES/NO/YES
    Typhoon: YES/YES/YES/YES
    Rafale: NO/YES/YES/YES
    Gripen: YES/YES/YES/YES

    Top Speed/Supercruise/6+g turn at Mach 1.6 and 36,000ft
    F-22: Mach 2+/Mach 1.6+/YES
    Typhoon: Mach 2.35/Mach1.5/YES
    Rafale: Mach 1.8/Mach 1.3/NO
    Gripen: Mach 2.0/Not Really/HELL NO!:rofl:
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2014
  5. HMS Astute

    HMS Astute BANNED BANNED

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    Here's the British owned Gripen based in UK.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    In the official technical guide of eurofighter Typhoon the Empty mass is 11,000 kg and not 10500
    http://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j...sybfXl9bepurkm9Ww&sig2=2Y_NS9OsrQ3-joQbRHnMQw
    DIMENSIONS / MASS
    Wingspan 10.95 m (35 ft 11 in)
    Length overall 15.96 m (52 ft 4 in)
    Height 5.28 m (17 ft 4 in)
    Wing Area 51.2 m2(551.1 ft2)
    Basic Mass Empty 11,000 kg (24,250 lb)
    Maximum Take-off > 23,500 kg (51,809 lb)
    Maximum external load > 7,500 kg (16,535 lb)
     
  7. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    And it's the basic weight, so it can't go below that unless the cockpit and the pilot are thrown out. Actual empty weight today should be much higher considering all the upgrades happening.
     
  8. HMS Astute

    HMS Astute BANNED BANNED

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    Which countries invent, design and make Gripen?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2014
  9. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    That's because it's averaged for the single-seater (10,500kg) and two-seater (11,700kg).

    Eurofighter Typhoon – Wikipedia

    Just as the Dassault page's 10,000kg may be an average for different Rafale variants, hence why I did a calculation for 9,500kg in brackets too.
     
  10. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Is that for the C variant because I understood Selex UK do the Raven ES-05.

    Raven ES-05
    Data Sheet
     
  11. HMS Astute

    HMS Astute BANNED BANNED

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    UK Selex is also delivering the Skyward-G infrared search & track (IRST) passive sensor and identification friend-or-foe (IFF) system for use on the swing-role aircraft. Saab has recently selected Selex's new BriteCloud expendable active decoy (EAD) as an electronic warfare option for the Gripen NG and all other versions of the aircraft.
     
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  12. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    don't you think that 8000 kg for Gripen is also averaged?
     
  13. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Averaged against what, a lorry? The figures are piss-poor even if you take 500kg off that weight and get worse quickly as soon as you add a war load of any kind whatsoever.

    It's only really suitable as a trainer jet, which is what we use them for (ETPS).

    Saab JAS 39 Gripen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  14. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    The avionics are pretty decent, it's just a shame about the weight and thrust.
     
  15. alekhyaochre

    alekhyaochre REGISTERED

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    ETPS is really suitable for trainer jet.
     

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