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Shooting to kill - how many men can do this?

Discussion in 'Military Multimedia' started by Darth Marr, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. Darth Marr

    Darth Marr Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
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  2. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    What is the aim of this video being posted to create a new thread? Any aim? Any objective?
     
  3. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I can, its all about reaction time and Adrenaline surge. The point of repeated Military exercises is to -Desensitize or opposite in case of Military. My Anatomy Professor told us if you cannot bear the smell of Dead , faint at sight of blood and Formalin, You don't deserve to be here!

    But did you Consider the Ballistic drop into this case?
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  4. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Again ... point being?

    And no, the problem is with formalin stench .. or sheer upbringing that causes so called faint hearted to faint during dissection. Tried getting into the cold storage of a morgue and staying there with cadavers for 10-15 minutes? Interesting experience ... it is still the formalin stench which is of significant presence.
     
  5. Darth Marr

    Darth Marr Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Wanted to talk about the psychological impact of war and topics related to it, how it impacts the soldier. Stuff like PTSD is not talked about in India, am sure it impacts retired soldiers here as well.
     
  6. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Been there done that. Seen some people get light headed at sight of blood,eventually they overcame it.Pathology, post mortem dissection is all about dead cadavers in morgue.
    Formalin makes you cry and clears up your sinuses.

    In the context of Military, i was saying they are trained to kill.Muscle , nerve memory with certain exercise and repeated use becomes normal or heightened reaction times also adrenaline surge is associated with such experiences. The problem comes with Morality,Ethics before conflict or Ops begin. If the Soldier thinks the cause is unjust he/she will hesitate to pull the trigger. If they feel cause is just, they would go into a overdrive with a zeal and do things, normal people would not do. Like the Naga Headhunters who used to kill and eat their dead enemies on battlefield with a piece of rock salt to show their anger. The Jihadis believe their cause is just and go into over drive and kill themselves to attain their jannat,like killing kafirs for instance .
    The Vikings believed in glorious death in battle to reach Vallhalla.I sometimes, think Islam copied this concept from Hinduism of "Veer Swarga(Warrior's death and Warriors heaven)" and conceptualized it into Jihad, as we know Islam copied a lot of Judeo-Christian values and ideas. Jesus christ was rumored to have learnt in India in Buddhist teachings during his 13 years.
    I would say read Bhagawad Gita, Just think of yourself as a Instrument and do the duty you were born for or trained for, forget the rest. Even Nazis grappled with this issue of their storm troopers morale going down after shooting people in the heads.So they made the to be executed victims cover their faces or turn back,so as to not face the executioners and show human emotions which haunt the executioners later as PTSD.Over time of such experience some people get desensitized/harden up,while some drop out and become too emotionally involved. So even ,Heinrich Himmler took Bhagawad Gita and wanted his troops to be taught and believe in its,do your duty,don't question and leave the karma to lord. Samurais dedicated themselves such way to their Masters.They believed in doing the duty and were ruthless,fearless and even killed themselves in battle or normal times.
    Some fighter jet pilots described experience as since we don't see it, we don't care,when bombing a target.An interesting movie was made on such drone operator experience.
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3297330/


    Bhagawad Gita says,
    "The one who kills believes that he is killing. The one who has been killed believes that he dies. Both of them are wrong, for one doesn't die and the other doesn't kill".
    "Karm karo, fal ki chinta mat karo" (Do your duty without thinking about results)
     

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    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
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  7. An Indian

    An Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Yes PTSD does impact.

    I can talk out of experience of seeing this happen to someone very close to me. He was wounded at Walong (should tell you how old he is) in '62. He still gets nightmares.

    Finds it difficult to talk about it.
     
  8. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    What is the frequency of PTSD amongst the Indian Soldier? Are you aware? What are the reasons for onset of PTSD? How is it that the frequency of case in Indian set up is hardly of any statistical significance, yet it is rampant in VA establishments in US?

    What is Panic Attack? How did it come to fore? What are 'lifestyle' diseases and their theory?

    Why do you think that there was an increase in frequency of 'fainting spells' amongst children in 1990s in school with the assemblies being a favourite time zone? Why do you think that in a statistically significant majority, the 'case' was undiagnosed, had no treatable cause even after a battery of tests and attributed to 'psychological' aspects?

    @Wolfpack When did PTSD come into Indian Medical Teaching language?
     
  9. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    What you are doing is wandering into a wider context of 'why men fight'.

    Do you think that the occurrence of PTSD was not there in earlier times? Hint: 'shell shocked' 'frozen' 'zoned out'

    Or do you think that the diagnosis of cases was poor? :D

    Or do you think that the number of cases have increased in the last decade (even though the level of violence, the frequency of operations and the level of firepower employed has significantly reduced over the same time frame) ? And if they have increased what do you attribute it to?
     
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  10. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    It is not talked about as there is a concept called Lifestyle disease. Refer PTSD under a lifestyle disease. The 'fainting' spells came about in 90s, with the concept of Star TV, Santa Barbara, The Bold & the Beautiful etc. The penetration of a concept occurred. Correlate to that era and do your research. Can not pull old publications of MJAFI (@Wolfpack it is Medical Journal of Armed Forces of India) so can not put up data.

    Similarly, the penetration of 'stress' took place. Today, ask a soldier what stress is, he is not able to define. But when he does not get leave as desired, he is 'immediately' under stress. The more you talk, the more it becomes a 'fashion'.

    Not one soldier in India I have found as a case of PTSD yet. Not one. In US, tonnes will be in VA.
    Why do you think that occurs? Does the Indian Family support system in place have something to do with that? Does the fact that the majority of Indians who grew up were technologically behind their US counterparts and hence learnt to cope with their difficulties either on their own or with their buddies and hence had an in-situ support system, have any part? Do you think that the present generations increasing isolation (most are active on social network sites, kids hardly go out to play, people hardly interact outside their routine working hours while growing up) in terms of support from peer group with increased advances in connectivity to their own family (which is the main crux amongst Indian Soldiers - the lack of mobiles in far flung areas) rendering them dependent on their family and not learning the 'social skill' to amalgamate in their environment, have a role to play too?
     
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  11. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I am sure PTSD was always there since mankind walked.
    It is only nowadays its being addressed because of the Liberal brigade,who have a habit of constantly playing victim card.They get panic attacks,safe spaces and PTSD even if someone clapped their hands,which is ridiculous.
    So naturally PTSD is being mainstreamed and talked more often.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
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  12. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    It didn't till now,while i am pretty sure it will be introduced into Medical College Curriculum in future.Now that we have psychologists teaching LGBT is not a mental disease which was what UN considered it as till ICD-10 in 1992.:mrgreen:
    Soon, you might have Gay history studies in humanities and Psychology section considering the rate at which Western countries/ influence is trying to create a Rainbow country out of India.:frust:
     
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  13. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    You nailed it!!
     
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  14. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    What you said is correct,the Indian family and value system is a factor which prevented PTSD .Nowadays, Nuclear families dont have time to have dinner with families and each are left to play with mobiles.Kids nowadays have more online friends,they never met in real life. We are aping the Western nations culture,propaganda and ultimately end up getting these psychiatric problems plaguing western nations.
     
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  15. Darth Marr

    Darth Marr Captain FULL MEMBER

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    As I mentioned earlier, I don't really know. Hence the thread. I just found the video and its contents quiet surprising. PTSD is often mentioned in US but I have never heard of it in India.
     

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