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Small Modular Reactors

Discussion in 'Europe & Russia' started by BMD, Sep 16, 2017.

  1. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    A small part lasts 600,000 years. (The longer it stays radioactive, the less radiation it emits)


    OTOH
    LFTR waste lasts 300 years
    :homer:
     
  2. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Wind turbines would require billions to deconstruct and remove. Most are just left there.
    Solar uses highly toxic heavy metals that are hazardous to mine and hazardous to dispose.
    Biomass = LOL
     
  3. Flyboy!

    Flyboy! Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    There is nothing as small modular reactors. Nuclear plants have to be massive to get complete benefit because of huge initial investment and safety concerns. Moreover, they must be in the vicinity of a large water body.
     
  4. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    The metal in solar are only toxic if you dump them rather than recycling and contaminated metals and structures is another hazard of nuclear.

    How much does nuclear cost to deconstruct and remove? Tens of billions.
     
  5. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Just stop it. The past few pages have shown you are clueless.
     
  6. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Nuclear decommissioning costs a couple of Bills. The problem is that the companies that built them don't have experience much as nuclear plants last up to 60 years (as opposed to 15-20 years for intermittents) so there haven't been all that many decommissionings in the first place.

    But there are new decommissioning specialists are coming up.
    The problem for unreliables is that even if nuclear decommissioning cost upwards of 10 Bills, they are still costlier. Without massive subsidies, they wouldn't even be built.


    Obviously decommissioning is a much smaller problem for IFR's and the likes.
     
  7. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    There's the decommissioning, the POCO which comes before it, and the long-term waste storage for 1 million years, the site of which has to be guarded.
     
  8. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    You keep arguing in bad faith and the end result is that we keep talking past each other.

    Nevertheless, the contract sees the transfer of the license therefore it is all inclusive.


    Coming back to Hinkley, the most expensive nuclear plant in construction in the world at the moment, it would take about 27 GW of solar just to generate the same energy. And 7 Tw-hr of storage to provide said energy year round.

    The cost of utility scale solar is about $1.5/watt.
    http://www.solarmango.com/ask/2015/...utility-scale-solar-power-plant-mw-in-the-uk/

    That is $40 billion dollars to get your source in place.

    Onto the storage - as we saw costed $600/Kw-hr.
    Therefore a cost of $4.2 trillions.

    For a net cost of $4.24 trillions.

    Of course you have to buy all this thrice as solar and battery die in 15-20 years (Being generous and good of heart I take the upper limit of 20) versus 60 of nuclear.

    So 12.72 trillions in Toto. Not included inflation and the cost of a bankrupt economy.

    You can buy 500 Hinkley in the same price. The difference being you can actually build 500 of them as opposed to wunderbattery which would have run out of the planets lithium deposits.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017 at 12:28 AM
  9. Flyboy!

    Flyboy! Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Stop being a smart a$$. SMRs are used only for military propulsion-R&D or remote locations (eg Siberia) which have perennial availability of water but no other energy sources. FYI for SMRs, you have to over-design all the economizers to maximize thermal efficiency or else energy generation is not cost effective. Hence, most long term nuclear plant installations are > 500 MW. We need a few more Kudankulams to suffice our energy needs and get rid of coal altogether.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017 at 5:02 AM
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  10. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    You don't need that much storage though and you grossly underestimate the cost of decommissioning and POCO. To date, no private company has ever paid for it it's so expensive.

    No nuclear power station has ever lasted 60 years.

    Nope, Hinkley is 3.2GW, monocrystalline PERC solar with dual axis tracking could match that with 12GW. It costs £1/W - industry quote direct from Sun Power for a 5MW facility, a larger facility would cost less due to economy of scale.

    You are obviously unaware of solid state lithium batteries that will last far longer and flow batteries.

    And you still need batteries on a nuclear plant to provide UPS back-up for safety critical systems.
     
  11. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    The absolute best way to take care of the issue with limited day light is a global grid connected network. If national grids of one country are connected to the national grids of other countries, then it becomes possible to have 24/7 solar power.

    So we can have infrastructure for 1TW each of solar power in Australia, Sahara Desert and USA. Investment can be made by most of the countries in the world for this. And then interconnect grids everywhere. There is no need for storage and is much cheaper than nuclear power.

    If we go for 3TW of nuclear power for India alone, then it could cost us $5B per GW reactor and that's $15T. That's way too expensive.

    At the scale of solar power generation I am talking about, we can effectively build 3TW of solar power at 0.5B/GW for a total of $1.5T, that's 10 times less. And the grid transmission could cost as much as $200-300B.

    Effectively less than $2T compared to a reactor's $15T price tag. And without decommissioning costs.

    Technological advances can easily cater to the problems with building such a grid. Energy losses will be low because of the different timezones, so there is always someone available to use this much power. And the 3 geographical areas have the kind of land that solar plants of this scale require, we need only 20,000 sq Km for 1 TW with existing technology. All are near oceans as well. Ownership is determined by the size of investments made by each country.

    This type of system will drastically reduce the cost of ownership. With the money saved, govts can subsidize and make available more advanced batteries for homes that can last as much as 48 to 72 hours on one charge. So houses are protected from energy shortages long enough to fix grid related problems while other domestic powerplants can continue supplying power to the industry.

    And total capacity is easily scalable.
     
  12. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    True but who's going to trust other countries enough to rely on them for electricity?
     
  13. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  14. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The level of stupidity in this thread has now crossed the Chandrashekhar limit which in hindsight was rather obvious given the highly idiot nature of renewables.

    And people didn't even get to see the super awesome SMR's. For Shame.

     
  15. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    When you have a working commercial LFTR drop us a line.
     
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