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Small Modular Reactors

Discussion in 'Europe & Russia' started by BMD, Sep 16, 2017.

  1. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    DC lines for power distribution? Hello power losses.
     
  2. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    No. HVDC doesn't have much power losses.

    That's why it's used for long distance transmission.

    https://www.siemens.com/press/pool/de/events/2012/energy/2012-07-wismar/factsheet-hvdc-e.pdf
    Transmission losses are lower than for AC voltage. DC voltage amounts to several hundred thousand volts. The higher the voltage, the lower the transmission losses are, and the more electricity can be transmitted via the line.

    HVDC transmission has typically 30-50% less transmission loss than comparable alternating current overhead lines. (For comparison: given 2500 MW transmitted power on 800 km of overhead line, the loss with a conventional 400-kv AC line is 9.4%; with HVDC transmission at 500 kV, it is only 6%, and at 800 kV it is just 2.6%.)


    The power plant I'm talking about requires much higher voltages transmitted, so the loss will be even lower.

    http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/hamerly1/docs/energyweek00.pdf

    http://www.tdworld.com/transmission...igh-voltage-direct-current-transformer-tested
    ABB said it has successfully developed and tested an 1100 kV "ultrahigh-voltage" direct current converter transformer, breaking the record for the highest DC voltage levels ever, and facilitating more power to be transmitted efficiently over longer distances.

    The Xiangjiaba-Shanghai link, commissioned by ABB was the world`s first commercial 800-kV "UHVDC" connection. It has a capacity of 6400 MW and covers a distance of just over 2000 km, making it the longest of its kind in operation. The new 1100-kV converter transformer technology will make it possible to transmit more than 10,000 MW of power across distances as long as 3,000 km.

    Higher voltage levels allow larger amounts of electricity to be transported across long distances with minimal losses using HVDC technology. Converter transformers play a critical role in HVDC transmission serving as the vital interface between the DC link and the AC network. Development of the 1100-kV transformer addressed several technology challenges such as the sheer size and scale, electrical insulation including bushings and thermal performance parameters.
     
  3. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    AC is used for long distance transmission, not DC.

    Yeah, the link is wrong. This is my field and I know what I'm talking about. The average current is higher for DC because it remains at a fixed amplitude, therefore higher losses. Furthermore, because you don't have three phases that sum to zero, the neutral wire has to be thicker too.

    Also the losses you mention are due to the higher voltage, not DC vs AC. 500kV has 0.8 times current of 400kV (P=VI). Losses are proportional to I^2.R. 0.8^2 = 0.64. 0.64 times 9.4 = 6%. At 800kV, current is 0.5 times. 0.5^2 = 0.25. 0.25 x 9.4 = 2.35% for AC.

    AC vs DC battle was played out in early 20th century and AC won.

    Pray tell, how can you run a three phase motor or machine off DC. You can't. Meaning you have to convert back to three phase AC at every local network, which will impose more losses that a typical step-down transformer. DC distribution is only good for LED lighting and maybe batteries, it depends on the loads you're distributing the power for but right now, most things are still AC.
     
  4. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  5. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Make China Great Again.

    Solar energy boom turns to
    bust for Indian manufacturers


    Krishna N. Das, Sudarshan Varadhan
    5 MIN READ


    NEW DELHI (Reuters) - Some of India’s biggest solar equipment makers are facing financial collapse, priced out by Chinese competitors as Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government prioritises cheap power over local manufacturing despite his ‘Make in India’ push.


    An employee works at a solar cell production line at Jupiter Solar Power Limited (JSPL) plant in Baddi, Himachal Pradesh, India May 29, 2017. REUTERS/Ajay Verma
    Though President Donald Trump is pulling the United States out of the Paris accord on climate change, India is sticking to its huge renewable energy programme. That has created a multi-billion-dollar market for Chinese solar product makers, who are facing an overcapacity at home and steep duties in Europe.


    India’s solar power generation capacity has already more than tripled in three years to over 12 gigawatt (GW) as Modi targets raising energy generation from all renewable sources to 175 GW by 2022.

    Chinese companies have gained the most from that increase, accounting for around 85 percent of India’s solar module demand and earning around $2 billion, according to industry data. The total annual market could jump to more than $10 billion in the next few years going by the government’s capacity targets.

    Local companies such as Jupiter Solar, Indosolar Ltd and Moser Baer India Ltd, however, are struggling to win contracts.

    Orders funnelled through a domestic-content policy have all but dried up after the World Trade Organization last September upheld an earlier ruling that found the move violated global trade norms.

    As a result, Jupiter said it could shut shop by July after delivering their last orders this month; Indosolar auditors have raised doubts over it remaining as a “going concern”; and Moser Baer says it needs support from its lenders to revive its solar business.

    “TORPEDOED”

    Indian solar power plant developers - including companies backed by Japan’s Softbank and Goldman Sachs - are quoting ever-lower tariffs in auctions to win big projects, encouraged by steep drop in Chinese solar equipment prices.

    That is squeezing out Indian cell and module makers, many of which have inferior technology, depend on imports of raw materials, have limited access to cheap loans and operate below capacity. Chinese modules are 10-20 percent cheaper than those made in India, company and industry executives said.

    “The WTO ruling has torpedoed everything. It’s not a case of one company - we have the largest cell operating capacity - everybody below us will shut down one after another,” Jupiter CEO Dhruv Sharma told Reuters by phone.


    An employee works at a solar cell production line at Jupiter Solar Power Limited (JSPL) plant in Baddi, Himachal Pradesh, India May 29, 2017. REUTERS/Ajay Verma
    Chinese companies were selling solar cells in India at 19-20 U.S. cents, around 35 percent below his production cost, he added.

    There are more than 110 Indian solar cell and module makers registered with the government, out of which consultancy Bridge to India expects only a handful to survive.

    Santosh Vaidya, a senior official in the Ministry of New & Renewable Energy, said the government was working on several initiatives to promote the domestic solar manufacturing industry. He did not elaborate.


    Slideshow (2 Images)
    GOING THE TELECOM WAY
    India’s promise, and need, as a market for solar is obvious. It is one of the lowest per-capita consumers of electricity in the world and more than 200 million of its people are still not connected to the grid, making it crucial for the government to aggressively push for cheap power.

    Despite its low labour costs, it is not alone in buckling under pressure from Chinese competition. Earlier this month, Germany’s SolarWorld, once Europe’s largest solar panel maker, said it would file for insolvency.

    Indian companies produced an estimated 1.33 GW of modules last year out of the total capacity of 5.29 GW, according to Bridge to India. Total consumption of modules - 60 percent of a solar project’s cost - was around 4 GW.

    Solar project developer SB Energy, a joint venture between SoftBank, Taiwan’s Foxconn and India’s Bharti Enterprises, said it had discussed the shortage of local manufacturing with the government.

    “Lack of significant domestic solar manufacturing capacity is a concern, as this is a major gap,” SB Energy Executive Chairman Manoj Kohli said, drawing a parallel with India’s huge mobile phone market but negligible local production.

    Several company executives said a lack of scale, absence of raw material supply chains and rapidly changing technology were some of other reasons Indian firms were unable to compete with Chinese manufacturers such as Trina Solar and Yingli.

    “The government is busy bringing power prices down ... but you can’t build castles on graves,” Gyanesh Chaudhary, CEO of module maker Vikram Solar told Reuters. “Without a domestic manufacturing ecosystem, no public policy can last for a long time.”
     
  6. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    OTOH


    Boost to transform domestic nuclear industry

    Cabinet approves construction of 10 units of India’s indigenous Pressurized Heavy Water Reactors (PHWR)




    With likely manufacturing orders of close to 70,000 crores to the domestic industry, the project will help transform Indian nuclear industry by linking our goal of a strong nuclear power sector with our indigenous industrial capacities in high-end technologies.

    This Project will bring about substantial economies of scale and maximise cost and time efficiencies by adopting fleet mode for execution. It is expected to generate more than 33,400 jobs in direct and indirect employment. With manufacturing orders to domestic industry, it will be a major step towards strengthening India’s credentials as a major nuclear manufacturing powerhouse.

    http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=161865
    :smile:
     
  7. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Funnily India generated the same amount of energy by nuclear, ze Germans did with PV with 1\7 the capacity.
     
  8. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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  9. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The cost of electricity



    What India needs to do for reliability, security and affordability of electric supply

    The cost of electricity can be divided into plant-level costs, grid-level costs, and other costs. Plant-level costs consist of capital, operation and maintenance, and fuelling cost. Capital cost is reflected in the cost of generation by way of interest on debt and return on equity. For nuclear power plants, capital cost is high, but fuelling cost is low. For coal-fired power plants, capital cost is low, but fuelling cost is high. The capital cost of solar and wind is continuously decreasing; fuelling cost is nil.

    Electricity reaches a consumer through the grid. Laying a grid needs significant investment. A distributor buys electricity from a generator, adds transmission and distribution charges, a charge to recover technical losses, operating expenses, and his profit to determine the tariff to be charged from a consumer. Since several generators are connected to the grid, interaction with the grid and grid-management policies influence the working of a generator. At present, electricity markets do not assign any price to system effects, that is, to the complex interactions among various generators connected to the grid.

    In recent years, a large capacity based on variable renewable energy (VRE) sources has been connected to the grid. These sources are intermittent, but get priority feed-in due to nil fuelling cost. A grid manager must ensure that enough dispatchable generation capacity is connected to the grid to meet the peak load in the evening when solar power is not available. Dispatchable generation is provided by baseload technologies like coal and nuclear, and by large hydropower.

    Grid-level costs have several components: grid connection, grid extension and reinforcement, short-term balancing costs, and long-term costs for maintaining adequate back-up supply. VRE sources demand much higher back-up, grid connection and reinforcement costs. This aspect needs attention during policy formulation.

    In December 2016, the Central Electricity Authority issued a draft national electricity plan (DNEP), which refers to system effect and resulting system cost at several places.

    The emphasis on VRE sources without any investment in energy storage has converted daily load profile for dispatchable generating stations into a “duck curve”, that is, with a reduced electricity load during the day when solar is available and a rapid ramp up in the evening. This lowers the capacity factor of dispatchable generators. The DNEP acknowledges technological and operational challenges posed by the integration of VRE into the grid. It highlights the loss of generation efficiency, high maintenance cost, and higher emissions of combined cycle plants due to cycling and ramping. It details grid integration cost of VRE in qualitative terms.

    A recent report by the Department of Energy, U.S., highlights another element that is smoothening of transients in the grid by the inertia of the rotating mass present in thermal power plants, while solar plants have no such feature.

    System costs have been quantified by the Nuclear Energy Agency of the OECD and differ across countries depending on the extent of presence of sources like natural gas. According to this quantification, system cost of VRE sources is much higher than nuclear and coal. True parity of VRE sources will be achieved only when the sum of generation cost and system cost matches with that from dispatchable sources.

    Other costs
    Other costs include those arising from the influence of electricity generation on health, influence on existing generation capacity due to adding new capacity, cost of accidents, security of supplies and net energy gain for society.

    In the Economic Survey 2016-17 (Volume 2), an attempt has been made to estimate grid-level costs and some other costs. The survey uses the term ‘social cost of carbon’ to represent economic cost of greenhouse gas emissions. It also adds health costs, costs of intermittency, opportunity cost of land, cost of government incentives and cost arising from stranded assets. It, thus, includes not only system cost, but a significant part of other costs as well. It estimates that the total social cost of renewables was ₹11 per kWh, around three times that of coal.:bunny:

    Conventional metrics like levellised cost of electricity generation cannot be relied on to compare intermittent and dispatchable electric supply options. India’s electricity requirements are enormous. It doesn’t need a ‘technology versus technology’ debate, but a policy framework that integrates all low-carbon energy technologies with coal in a manner that ensures reliability and security of electric supply along with affordability and climate-resilient development.

    http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-...ty-what-india-needs-to-do/article19786452.ece
     
  10. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    'waste problem'?

    If the contribution from wind turbines and solar energy to global energy production is to rise from the current 400 TWh (ref. 2) to 12,000 TWh in 2035 and 25,000 TWh in 2050, as projected by the World Wide Fund for Nature (WWF)7, about 3,200 million tonnes of steel, 310 million tonnes of aluminium and 40 million tonnes of copper will be required to build the latest generations of wind and solar facilities

    http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v6/n11/pdf/ngeo1993.pdf
     
  11. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Which are all recyclable, unlike transuranic waste.
     
  12. The enlightened

    The enlightened Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Burn in fast Reactors or even thermal breeders like LFTR.

    https://www.nei.org/Knowledge-Center/Nuclear-Statistics/On-Site-Storage-of-Nuclear-Waste

    Over the past four decades, the entire industry has produced 76,430 metric tons of used nuclear fuel. If used fuel assemblies were stacked end-to-end and side-by-side, this would cover a football field about eight yards deep.


    American football games are played on a rectangular field that measures 120 yards (110 m) long and 53.33 yards (48.76 m) wide.

    [​IMG]

    OHH MY GAWWWWDD!!!
    WE ARE ALL GOING TO DAAAIIII!!!!!!!

    [​IMG]
     
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    DC lines are not affected by skin effect and the overall loss in transmission is lower than AC lines. Even after DC is converted to AC, the overall loss is lower. The fact is there are losses when you step up or down with AC.

    DC has no frequency, so you can easily connect multiple grids.

    That's why all long distance transmission lines are DC. AC is only used for short to medium distances. Your knowledge is contrary to facts.

    If you want to connect the grids of multiple countries, you will need HVDC only.
     
  14. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Dude, the amount of nuclear waste produced is peanuts.
     
  15. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    You're talking to someone who's worked in the industry and it really isn't. For every kilo of high level waste there's also several hundred tonnes of low level waste, which is a huge amount of waste, even if non-radioactive. The quantity of socks and gloves alone would make a landfill blush.
     

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