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Su-30MKI Multirole Fighter Aircraft and Super 30 Upgrade News, Discussions..

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Dark_Prince, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    "Hotel India November Tango, over."

    Perhaps, clearer now?

    Now your claim on Brahmos:

    1. The specific demarcation of the platforms have been done by the Indian Armed Forces for their platforms due to the No First Use policy. It is a given that the moment elements of our nuclear forces are even put on a standby, intelligence of the same will be concomitantly made available to the other side either by their own HUMINT/ELINT sources or those of nations with interests to provide the same.

    2. Indian Army Strike Corps, and here member has correctly answered, have received the Brahmos Missiles in their inventory as part of the Strike Corps' Integral Artillery Division - 40, 41 ad 42.These have been given to undertake long range precision strikes against hardened 'nodes' and non-conventional munitions sites (in coordination with other efforts on the same target). By 'nuclearising' them, the NFU goes for a toss and renders these missiles useless.

    3. That is the reason why even till date IN carries Dhanush. That these missiles can be made to carry a nuclear device, is a fact not lost to anyone. But it is not, does not and will not form the primary vehicle for the delivery of a nuclear device.

    PS: I do not need sources to check.
     
  2. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    We can even load a nuke on Akash ... as also fire the same from ATAGS.(0.1 Kt)

    Frontline is made by Agni and Prithvi Missile Groups. The latter are still called as such .. even though they may/may not have converted to Prahar/Agni 1/2 for Prthivi conversions.

    We have a beautiful system of silo based and rail based, in addition to road mobile,dnuclear posturing.
     
  3. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Open Sourced and fair ...


    Ok.

    We have minimal capability out of 155 mm. That is more than enough. As for the NASR crap, it is not the 'nuclear bomb' you get in Diwali stalls. It is not that easy to undertake a nuclear strike. Protective posturing will be taken by opposing troops. That will entail an advance warning to own troops.

    Please get it straight, no one is going to use a nuke just because they can. It shall only be used in case the use entails a significant military advantage, first and foremost being exploitation of the 'gap' created. You think an enemy commander is a fool to drop his bomb and send his troops right in after that without protection? Please understand that this is not a joke, A lot of preparation is needed to use a nuke in battlefield conditions, especially knowing that the enemy will detect the preparations way off, especially an enemy like India, which has reasonably advanced and lethal intelligence set up in this field.




    You have no clue about what are you talking, do you?

    Minimum destruction? LOL .... what is minimum destruction?

    Wrong again.


    Because they can only speculate.

    They are not the user nor the doctrine makers. They are not even in the loop. They are only required to prepare items as the user demands. And they will speculate.

    I will challenge anyone, from HAL/DRDO/PMO either, to have a discussion with me on these aspects ... most will not even have the security clearances:D

    You see, majority are red herrings. And majority of the self styled experts, even those who have actually been in charge of the department, have only need to know based knowledge. Heck, there is Grade Staff Officer - 1 (GSO 1) appointment in Missile Groups, even he can not tell you where his unit's missiles are and how are they to be deployed :D

    You see, everything is compartmentalized and highly secured. To access one information, you need a complex interplay of actions and movements by personnel and information to occur. Which can never happen without coded authorizations from again a multitude of sources.

    That is why, nukes can never be, even by mistake, launched by an IA commander. We are that secure.

    Even the DRDO Missile Fabricating site, you can not approach it without your innards being evaluated and scrutinized ... by RAW, IB, MI, SFC Int Units to name a few ..... and you think HAL and DRDO will have information of the nuclear weapons and missile mating?


    Seriously a LOL.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
  4. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    @X_Killer

    Every device, from 155 mm upwards, can be jury rigged to carry a nuclear device in matter of hours. That is the whole point of my posts here so far. Brahmos is not being deployed in active nuclear strike roles as we do not want to lose the use of a very strong weapon for our forces.

    And even if Pakistan was to plan to move to strike us, we would be eliminating the threat by multitude of options. Those are beyond the scope here and will remain as such. But suffice to say, we may rely more on conventional strike to eliminate a tactical use of nuke rather than non-conventional and have reasonable assuredness to be able to achieve the desired results.

    Of course, everything goes for a toss when time and luck wants it ;)
     
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Exactly why there is no need to keep our nuclear platforms a secret. We have no desire to start a nuclear war, only the ability to respond to one, either an actual attack or a threat of being attacked.

    If we are attacked, it's good for us if they have a detailed list of everything that's about to hit them. :lol:
     
  6. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    The logic remains, the silo based strike will be the first of the lot to be closely followed by rail based systems. Subsequently, if needed, will the road mobile come into play.

    Our NFU is based on that precisely - we will not strike but if you move, we will :D

    Till then, we have the best in form of Brahmos and Nirbhay, to have fun with them.

    That is why Brahmos units have not been integrated with SFC till date :D

    and Nirbhay ---- I did mention seeing a quad launcher somewhere in Desert on a cold winter night/early morning some years back :D .... hint enough?
     
  7. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    People have unrealistic expectations from nukes. Many don't consider it as a weapon of last resort, a weapon to kill women and children first.
     
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  8. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

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    we have "no first use" nuclear warfare policy. Let's suppose if Pak opt to start its strike (defensive against Cold Start) with NASR (tactical Nuke), than what you'll do?
    I'm calculating the minimum destruction as minimum loss of lives on our side only , enemy's side is not calculated until peace recovery.
    I'm also calculating that Pakistani nukes are not that much safe as ours and can be accessed by bad guys in the bad time ahead..
    Right now, we all know that those bad guys (Terrorists) are all well talented, qualified and experienced in their desired fields. It's not the time when mentally derailed persons with guns and grenades were terrorists but right now they are designing, fabricating some high end technologies (like ISIS is doing). Underestimating the enemy may be dangerous and Terrorists (out controlled ISI bad guys) may cause such threat to India in near or far future...

    We all know the consequences of nuclear war but what happened when those bad guys want the same..

    But they're the manufacturer of end user products and manufacture them on user requirements. Isn't
    Totally agreed.:biggthumpup:


    I think, this thread is going in wrong direction, please move these posts to a desired thread and continue...
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
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  9. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

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    As we are discussing about BrahMos will be nuclearized or not?
    Don't take it otherwise, but we all know that BrahMos is based on Russian P-800 Oniks and according to Russians Oniks can be loaded with either more than 250 kg (551 lb) semi-armour piercing HE or nuclear material (equivalent to 120 kt of TNT) warhead.
    It is also mentioned in many books including Nuclear Data for Science and Technology written by K.H. Bockhoff.

    So, if P-800 can be nuclearized than BrahMos (advance variant of p-800) can also be nuclearized for specialised missions. I'm not speculating that all operational BrahMos should have Nuclear tip but we have the capability to deploy the nuke on the desired number of BrahMos whenever it is required. It will be very similar to the Nirbhay's optional warhead..

    PS: I'm not taking the Nukes lightly but I believe that peace can be retained only if you have big guns (mostly without firing).
     
  10. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Hellfire's already said it. You can fit nukes on Brahmos, but we won't do it because we need it for conventional strike.
     
  11. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Brahmos land attack will not be equipped with nukes but the air launched version is not for striking land targets or ships, Its specifically for nuke delivery. The longest range ASM carrying aircraft in India is P-8I. we can take out ships anywhere in IOR and we do not need SU-30MKI for that role.
     
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  12. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

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    This is what was hinted by officials that air launch BrahMos will have priority for nuclearization among its variants..

    Anyways, dust will be washed off soon.

    @Hellfire @PARIKRAMA @randomradio
    What happened to the BrahMos ALCM test which was scheduled for 16-17 Nov.?
     
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    P-8I is the IN's delivery platform. MKI will be the IAF's.
     
  14. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    The air space over sea and sea warfare is the responsibility of IN. IAF is not needed for this job. but we might have a sqn of them operating from A&N as and when needed.
     
  15. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    IAF plan to operate a squadron of MKI in Tamil Nadu. And they plan on operating MKIs from Kalaikunda to A&N. And they want air control from Muscat to Gujarat as well.
     

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