Su-30MKI Multirole Fighter Aircraft and Super 30 Upgrade News, Discussions..

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Dark_Prince, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. PeegooFeng41
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    PeegooFeng41 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    You dont sell your civic to buy a Ferrari. Unless you are making shit load of money and you are into blowing money on race cars.

    India needs a platform vis a vis China; whose jets are unproven and mostly copied from Russians. Upgrading Su30 to super sukhoi makes sense because 85M for F-35A does not include infra establishing cost, weapons cost, spares cost and down time in bringing up a squad. It is a saving of 23M + more per craft, not to mention valuable experience gained by India pilots in all these years of operating Su30.

    Lastly, I doubt US will sell F-35A to India at same price it procures or sells to its partners. They have shared the cost of development in these agonizing years. Oh, before I forget, F-35A has no FOC.
     
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  2. PeegooFeng41
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    PeegooFeng41 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    How did you infer that cost of upgrade is 62M per plane? seems more like 30-40 million.
     
  3. Gessler
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    Gessler Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Ah, guy who said IAF will never buy Rafale is back!

    Sure. Otherwise what's the point of having two different categories of fighters?

    Yes, it does have a very small RCS, at least when compared with Flankers.

    That's not the only reason. Rafale has gold-tinted canopies, saw-tooth edges on control surfaces and fuselage, and also maintains a degree of stealth in IR thanks to M88s with dual cooling channels + supercruise. Plus, it has AESA radar out of the box - much superior LPI characteristics than any PESA. Stealth does not include only radar spectrum, you know.

    MKI doesn't have anything.

    All stealth aircraft are detectable. Including F-22, F-35, B-2, F-117 and so on. The difference is, at what range does detection take place? And with radars of what function and wavelength?

    Oh plz...I keep hearing this 'Libyans tracked Rafale' nonsense again & again. I'm asking you the specifics (provided you are even aware of them)...at what range did the Libyans detect & track the Rafale? With what type of radar?

    Let's step off here for a bit and assume a few things. Let's say Libyans managed to track Rafale at 50km with a short-wavelength fire-control radar. Big deal. They could have tracked an MKI easily at over 100-150km with that same radar!

    The difference stands: Survivability. One who manages to stay undetected for the longest period of time, wins.

    But for achieving that advantage (maximum about 2T difference), MKI sacrifices survivability.

    There's no point in carrying more weapons if your plane is shot down before it gets to deploy the weapons. Don't forget we're dealing with a peer opponent here. Survivability is key. Rafale also has fuselage stations for weapons which can have negligible drag and low RCS increase.

    Also, don't forget fuel economy. MKI cannot supercruise which means whenever it has to go supersonic, it's fuel consumption increases greatly - which narrows down even the fuel capacity advantage.

    Additionally, don't forget Flanker was made for the distances of the USSR. For India, our opponents are next-door neighbours and their warfighting assets all lie within arm's reach of Rafale. Just because MKI has a longer range, doesn't mean MKI will go out to it's maximum range each time a sortie has to be conducted! Your arguments are extremely juvenile and hypothetical - and simply do not reflect the tactical reality.

    It can, depending on payload. Don't forget that even this is compared to MKI which has no supercruise at all!

    Most PLAAF fighter types have IRST...so good luck eggressing successfully.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
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  4. Averageamerican
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    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    I figured India were too cheap to spend 240 million for a 4th generation plane, smarter too.
     
  5. PeegooFeng41
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    PeegooFeng41 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    In this part of the world, we call it being frugal. No point blowing up 1 trillion dollars for a damn plane with no real enemy to use against.
     
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  6. SR-91
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    SR-91 FULL MEMBER

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    Here u go bro, pictures speak a thousand words.We can compare all western jets and clearly see the results....... images-4.jpg images-5.jpg hqdefault-1.jpg 2017-02-12-01-14-16-1944166462.jpg furtif-rafale.jpg

    Rafale saw tooth edges you we're talking about.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
  7. BON PLAN
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    BON PLAN Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Rafale is a Low Observable plane. RCS in lower than 0,1m²
    SU27 family and all the brothers, has a RCS of more than 5m².

    You can't compare the range and weapons load of a medium fighter versus a heavy one ! it has no sense.

    Rafale is a supercruiser. Mach 1.4 with 4 AAM. Mach 1.2+ with 4 AAM and one 1200l external tank.
     
  8. BON PLAN
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    BON PLAN Captain FULL MEMBER

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    :award:
     
  9. vstol jockey
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    vstol jockey Colonel STRATEGIST

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    You must never quote RCS of an aircraft in clean configuration. It must be quoted at least for the AD role. And in that role, Rafale has an RCS of 1.5-2sqm. Pls check with @Picdelamirand-oil.
     
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  10. AbRaj
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    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

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    [​IMG]
    notice the ziz- zag plates over nozzles
    PAKFA??
     
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  11. BON PLAN
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    BON PLAN Captain FULL MEMBER

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    In AtoA config, it's not so different from a clean config.
     
  12. randomradio
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    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Mig-29.
     
  13. AbRaj
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    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Rearview of Mig29

    Notice the difference

    [​IMG]
     
  14. randomradio
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    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Yup. There are two people in the nozzles. :wink:

    Anyway, what you are looking for is the Mig-29OVT. It has 3D TVC.

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. randomradio
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    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    This is the Mig-29K though.
     
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