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Su-30MKI Multirole Fighter Aircraft and Super 30 Upgrade News, Discussions..

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Dark_Prince, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Is there any benefit in reduction of IR signature?
     
  2. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

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    There is a hook

    You got it right:achmed:
     
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  3. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    No. TVC alone doesn't bring any IR reduction.

    Yes.
     
  4. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

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    You sir are going into technicalities here
     
  5. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Not tvc but the Zigzag rim above it
     
  6. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    I'm preferring the right engine....
     
  7. AbRaj

    AbRaj Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Off topic:biggthumpup:
     
  8. SR-91

    SR-91 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Big light in the sky vs small light in the sky. Bigger the heat signature , easier to spot.
     
  9. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    I frankly have no idea what it is - but I very much doubt it's designed to deflect any radar. First guess was - probably some shroud for actuators? But then no other TVC aircraft has such a setup - not even the fully-developed MiG-35.

    [​IMG]

    Whatever it is Mikoyan tried to put there - it's gone now.

    Plus, it's edges appear somewhat concave (curved inward), which is bad for stealth to begin with as it could amplify the return.

    [​IMG]

    On the other hand, this is what a zig-zag (saw-tooth) nozzle/nacelle edge designed for radar stealth would look like -

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    My two cents: Don't know what it is, but it's not there for stealth. And whatever it is, it doesn't directly effect IR signature output anyway.
     
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  10. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    I see a lot of discussion happening off the forum about Su-30MKI v/s Rafale. People questioning the requirement, capabilities, and what not. Sadly, no one wants to have a proper discussion on the forum where any questions they have can be properly addressed. The one thing that a lot of people simply fail to comprehend: Rafale and Su-30MKI, while in the IAF, are to compliment each other in a combat scenario. Not replace each other or fight each other, but to work with each other.

    Now, one must understand that IAF had purchased the Su-30MKI in the early 2000s based on technical requirements tabled in the 90s. Rafale on the other hand is being procured in the late 2010s based on requirements tabled in the mid to late 2000s. So there is like a 20-year gap between the two acquisitions. It is natural that IAF has far higher expectations from the Rafale as far as technology is concerned. That includes avionics, logistics, and the other paraphernalia associated with the deal.

    No one is claiming Rafale is absolutely 100% superior to the Su-30MKI. It is not. Flanker has some inherent qualities that make it better in certain departments. That is why I always lay emphasis on the fact that these two planes are designed to compliment each other in the IAF. On the other hand, claiming that Su-30MKI is absolutely better than Rafale and therefore there was never any need to buy Rafale at all is simply a bare-faced lie. That is, assuming the person making such a statement knows what he's talking about - if he's not, then it's simply a misinformed opinion.

    ++

    In the future, the MKI will undergo the Super Sukhoi upgrade which will bridge the gap in several technological fields which currently exist between it and the Rafale. But as of today and the forseeable future - Rafale is a necessity for the IAF. Because we want both the technology & capability it brings, and the numbers & industrial capacity-building associated with this deal.

    Flanker is a great platform - but one has to admit the Su-30MKI is in need of a serious upgrade, which will take a lot of time to apply across the fleet, and of course, will cost a lot of money. It doesn't even have basic modern fighter equipment like MAWS. Please....even the JF-17 has MAWS.

    As a closing note...I'd like to say that for quite a while after entering IAF service, Rafale will be a force to reckon with, much more than any MKI. China has recently taken deliveries of it's Su-35. I don't know if they'll be afraid of MKI with it's R-77s or not, but they had better be afraid of Rafale with the Meteor. AESA radar coupled with much smaller RCS (compared with Flankers) and what is arguably the best air-to-air weapon in the world.

    [​IMG]

    I hear a lot about nex-gen Russian AAMs, but let's face it - yes, they are capable designs (with AESA seekers and all), but they are yet not even in live-fire prototype stage. I wish to note the fact that Rafale with Meteor will be the extremely crucial element of IAF airpower - even in pure air-superiority duties.
     
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  11. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Nope, it will do nothing to reduce IR.
     
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  12. sunny6611

    sunny6611 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    what all is expected to change from SU 30 MKI to super SU 30 .............. kindly list .
     
  13. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    • New main AESA radar from Tikhomirov, derived from PAK-FA's N036
    • Additional side/wing leading-edge arrays are a possibility
    • New IRST...probably based either on Su-35's OLS-35 or PAK-FA's OLS-50M.
    • MAWS apertures...the Cassidian MILDS-F were indicated earlier
    • New-build AL-31FP engines with up to 20% improved thrust rating. Supercruise still not likely.

    • New glass cockpit inspired by Su-35's twin large MFDs.
    • New HUD-WAC
     
  14. SR-91

    SR-91 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    What about the all new Photonic Radar and I hear some noise about MKI getting khibiny jammers.
     
  15. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Photonic array radars (ROFAR) are only a concept at this point being developed by KRET in Russia. They are at least 8-10 years away from being a completed, workable model which will first be mounted on PAK-FA test aircraft.

    There are no plans to acquire ROFAR for IAF at this point, but there could be in future.
     
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