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Su-30MKI Multirole Fighter Aircraft and Super 30 Upgrade News, Discussions..

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Dark_Prince, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. Grevion

    Grevion Think Tank TROLL ELITE MEMBER

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    Saw a su 30mki flying over with a targeting pod today. Don't know which one. At first i thought it was a air-launched Brahmos. I wish....
     
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  2. SR-91

    SR-91 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    After Super Sukhoi-30 Upgrade India’s Su-30 MKI will be superior to Chinese Sukhoi-35
    BY DEFENCEUPDATE · MARCH 19, 2017


    [​IMG]India and russia on friday signed two key agrement for long term maintenance and technical support for russia made su30 mki jets to indian AirForce and now dtails have emerged of the major upgrade planned For the Indian Air Force Su-30 MKI Fllet next by HAL and Russia

    Under super-30 Updgrade program IAF Su-30 MKI will be upgraded to SU-35+ standards which will be far superior to the SU-35 currently been operated by Russian and Chinese Airforce

    Sukhoi modernize program is the another Long delayed Air force project, the Super sukhoi project is a Trending project during the early 2010, after announcing the MMRCA tender and winner most of them almost forget the modernise program, but still which not being considered as first priority, The Su 30 MKI is the Backbone of the Indian Air space protection, where recent troubles in Engines and Service availability also irked the issue.

    While most other airforce’s ramming up their primary fighter, Like pakistani’s comes up with Latest F 16 Block 52 Fighter, and Chinese also in effort and Successfully fitted AESA and home grown EW systems in thier flankers, they also in talks with Russians to buy more advanced 117S jet Engines, to power their Flankers.

    The plan is to upgrade the first 80 Su-30MKIs to the level ‘Super Sukhois’ which will have highly advanced radars and weapon systems, IAF sources told PTI
    The sources said the plan involves equipping the aircraft with long-range stand-off missiles up to the range of 300 km and a request for information (ROI) was issued recently for procuring such a weapon system from global vendors.Also under a Program the HAL and DRDO working to integrate Brahmos A missile with the MKI, a 44 of the Su 30 MKI can be modified to carry the Brahmos A missile, a Nuclear warhead is on the option. which may be fall under SFC,

    The Possible Upgrades to the MKI is adding more effective Multi role, like Multiple ejector Rack, AESA radar, more powerful EW and Jamming systems, along with High performance Engines,


    The missiles with a range around 300 kms would be in addition to the 290-km range BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles which would be carried by around 50 aircraft of the force.The same also integrating Anti armour missiles into Su 30 MKI to perform CAS missions, for doing anti armour and CAS missions, the fighter comes to very low, and need a visual identification before striking,

    The aircraft would also have the highly-advanced Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar along with the latest avionics systems. India have wide options of AESA, ERDE already developed a AESA multi mode radar with the support of Israeli Elta, which is unveiled in Aero India 2015, which can be fitted into MKI, while it was originally designed for MK2 Tejas, a modified version can be used in Su 30MKI, also variety of foreign options also available, we can buy from either Israeli’s, Americans or French,

    Another major aspects is the Engines, the engine issue in Su 30 MKI is a Major problem, while it comes with Dual engines, even one fails the other can bring the fighter to home base, the 117S engine from Russia seems good, who also power the Su 35, otherwise we may go for west for good Engines, but Better Idea is a Joint venture with some Foreign, a Engine for Indian projects must needed, we already have a Joint venture with General Electrical with an Indian private company.

    Amid all this, the Indian defence establishment is also trying to ensure “maximum operationally availability” of the existing fighters at any given time. Defence minister Manohar Parrikar, for instance, says serviceability of Sukhois has jumped to 60% now from an alarming 46% earlier.

    “The aim is to achieve 75% serviceability. This has been done with an active tripartite dialogue among Russia, Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) and IAF to ensure better availability of spares and maintenance for the Sukhois,” a source said.

    This, in turn, has led to renewal of the plan to upgrade the jets into ‘Super Sukhois’, with advanced AESA (active electronically scanned array) radars and long-range stand-off missiles. “The technical requirements should be finalised this year, with the contract being inked next year,” said the source.

    The Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) will work with the Russian help under a project expected to cost around Rs 10,900 crore for upgrading the Su-30 MKIs.Also cost can be increased to $12 billions dollar.
    If all the above options are considered and Quickly established we may see the Upgraded MKI before 2020, and the Initial batches comes by 2025.
     
  3. asingha94

    asingha94 IDF NewBie

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    Everything will be will be...We have been hearing that thing since last decade...Deal kab sign hoga?
     
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  4. Flyboy!

    Flyboy! Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Did we recently sign some deal for spares for current sukhois ???
     
  5. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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  6. zebra7

    zebra7 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=159499

    "A beginning was made at the Conference by signing of two agreements between HAL and United Aircraft Corp and United Engine Corp of Russia, for general terms and conditions governing long-term supply of spares and rendering technical assistance over five years for the IAF’s Su-30MKI fleet."

    At last the guaranteed integrated logistics package has been inked, following negotiations that began (believe it or not) in 2009. Under this scheme, the JV called Indo Russian Aviation Ltd (IRAL) will own & manage complete bonded warehouses (for both the IAF & export customers) containing ALL reqd rotables & consumables for the Su-30MKI, in addition, to spare AL-31FPs. So by the year's end, Su-30MKI fleet's serviceability/availability levels will go beyond 75% even during peacetime.
     
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  7. zebra7

    zebra7 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Superior in what sense. Su35 is a strike fighter, while IAF used its MKI for Air Superiority, Air Defence platform. After Super Sukhoi upgrade, the components which were getting older technologically will be upgraded, and will enhance its Air dominance capability, and give the MKI, the limited A2G capability.
     
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  8. lca-fan

    lca-fan Captain FULL MEMBER

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    India's Super Sukhoi's will technologically out-match China's latest Su-35 jets
    Sunday, March 19, 2017
    By: Defence News





    • [​IMG]


    India's fleet of Su-30 MKI Fighter Jets are finally undergoing the Super Sukhoi Upgrade Programme. The IAF would have almost 270 Sukhoi-30MKIs by 2017 and the IAF Headquarters plans all them to be upgraded to the near fifth generation level and the IAF has decided to name them as Super Sukhoi.

    For a long time, the only thing we knew about the proposed Su-30MKI upgrades was the name of the program: Sukhoi Super 30. There was no information about the technical specifications, timeline or costs. Commentators often confuse Sukhoi Super 30 with another upgrade program that aims to integrate the Su-30MKI with the air-launched version of the BrahMos anti-ship cruise missile.

    These are in fact two independent and unrelated projects. BrahMos will be installed on only 40-42 planes. The program has already reached a fairly advanced phase of flight-testing to ascertain mechanical compatibility of the BrahMos-A air-launched missile with a reinforced Su-30MKI airframe. Live Missile launches have already commenced. The Sukhoi Super 30 program, on the other hand, will be rolled out to the entire Indian fleet of Su-30MKI fighters; it has yet to begin in earnest, and up until recently, there was very little information about it in the public domain.

    The estimated cost of the Super Sukhoi-30 program is $10-12 billion.


    China's induction of the Su-35 Jet ::

    Sukhoi's Su-35S is a 4++ generation aircraft that employs fifth generation technologies. It is superior to most fourth generation fighters that are currently being developed worldwide.

    The Su-35S is armed with the newest types of air-to-air and air-to-surface guided missiles, including long-range types.

    The core of the Su-35S armament is a new radar control system with a phased antenna array (Irbis-E). It features unique capabilities in terms of the target detection range.

    There is a pressing need for speeding up the Su-30MKI program in order to restore the Indian Air Force’s technological superiority over the Chinese. Essentially, India needs to pull off the same trick it did in the mid-1990s, when it responded to China’s mass procurement of Su-27/30 fighters with the original Su-30MKI program. Two decades on, India needs to respond to China’s Su-35 and J-31 jets with the Sukhoi Super 30.


    India's Super Sukhoi's ::

    The Super Sukhoi's will be kitted with Russian Phazotron Zhuk-AE Active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars. The X band radar can track 30 aerial targets in the track-while-scan mode and engage six targets simultaneously in attack mode. AESA technology offers improved performance and reliability compared with traditional mechanically scanned array radars.

    During MMRCA trials the Zhuk-AE AESA radar demonstrated significant capabilities, including ground-mapping modes and the ability to detect and track aerial targets. The upgrade will also involve equipping all jets with stand-off missiles with a range of 300 km.

    In Super Sukhoi, the electronics will be upgraded heavily and the Super Sukhois will carry more weapon loads compared to the Su-35.

    Super Sukhoi will have same engine as in FGFA. It will enhance the life cycle of SU-30MKIs. However, first aircraft will be upgraded in two years time.

    Super Sukhoi's deep penetrating Brahmos Missile will make it the deadliest fighter jet on the planet after the F-22 Raptor and No. 1 in dogfight capabilities and maneuverability.

    There are basic differences between Indian and Chinese SU-30s as the Power plants do not match. On other counts also the Indian Su-30 is far more superior than the Chinese SU-30s which compelled them to opt for the Su-35. But India has again maintained its Air Force's technological superiority by choosing to upgrade all of its 272 Su-30 MKI's to Super Sukhoi Standards than make them virtually 5th generation fighter jets.

    http://www.defencenews.in/article/I...lly-out-match-Chinas-latest-Su-35-jets-251048
     
  9. SR-91

    SR-91 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Upgrade would make MKI into a true multi-role fighter. It will be able to perform any task assigned to it , whether it's A2A..... A2G..... CAS.... RECONNAISSANCE..... AIR SUPERIORITY... STRIKE FIGHTER.
    that's the idea behind ""SUPER"" SU-30MKI".
     
  10. zebra7

    zebra7 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    LOL True multirole fighter.

    MKI needs MLU, so that the the subcomponents, which are getting older in tech. could be upgraded, to keep the Air Dominance profile, for which it was designed in the different scenario and adversaries which are different than, when it was inducted such as internal AESA based Jammer, MAWS, RWR, Airborne Decoys, BARS Aesa MMR upgrade with SAR capability, Long range BVRAAM , Upgraded EW Suite, and Engine upgrade/replacement for better TTL and TBO. For different role -- Atleast 50 would go for the airframe strengthening to carry Brahmos, and 50 more for the specialized SEAD operation. Why would any sane Airforce would use MKI for dropping free fall bombs or precission munition, when you have Jaguar Darin 3, Mirrage 2000 UPG, for reccee that why would India is opting for Space based platform, and surveillance UAVs for tactical surveillance, which would be much cheaper to operate and less risky. For A2G, the role of the MKI would be to launch A2G cruise Missile aka for DEAD operations from safe distance.
     
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  11. WhyCry

    WhyCry Reaper Love Developers -IT and R&D

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    Russia proposes major modernisation of IAF’s Su-30MKI

    [​IMG]

    Leading Russian aircraft manufacturer Irkut Corporation has proposed to undertake a major modernisation of the Indian Air Force’s (IAF) Su-30MKI aircraft, Irkut President Oleg Demchenko told TASS on Mar. 23.

    According to Demchenko, modernization would significantly expand the combat capabilities of the Su-30MKI aircraft.

    According to Irkut representatives, the company could build up the infrastructure for the overhaul of Su-30MKI in India and improve after-sales service, integrate new types of weapons and upgrade weapons and onboard systems.

    Su-30MKI was designed by the Irkut Corporation specifically for India. The licensed production of the aircraft takes place at the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited plant in Nashik, Maharashtra.

    The IAF ordered a total of 270 Su-30MKI fighters, out of which 230 are already in service.
     
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  12. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    That's not correct, the Su 30 series is based on the air superiority design of the Su 27, but is fully multi role capable, be it in terms of radar modes, avionics or weapon capability. In fact the MKI offers IAF the most A2G capabilities and is used in recon roles for years as well.
    The upgrade is mainly a modernisation of already existing capabilities. Apart of the airframe overhaul for example, it will get new engines and the PESA radar (which still is one of the bes in south asia) will be improved to AESA. The hype about Brahmos might be big, but it also is only an improvement to the already available strike capabilities with KH59 for example.
    So it's already an excellent multi role fighter, but will further improve with the upgrade!

    The difference to the Su 35 will mainly be the AESA that the MKI might get and most likely the avionic customisations. The problem however is, that the Su 35 is irrelevant for Chinas defence, but more important to get their hands on Russian radar and engine techs, which then can lead to improvements in similar techs of their stealth fighter developments and they are the actual threat to India.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
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  13. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    SU-30SM At LIMA 17

     
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  14. zebra7

    zebra7 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Janab, for dropping Free fall bomb, or carpet bombing, or drooping LGB kit fitted bomb cued by the laser targeting pod is the waste of assets, for which India already have array of fighter planes available, namely Mirage 2000 UPG, Jaguar Darin2/3. Infact all fighter planes could do that, provided its control system could be upgraded and matted with the sensors required, and glass cockpit upgrade, offcource. :)

    Its been an honor to be replied by the legendary SANCHO. Sir I have been reading your post in various forum, but unfortunately I got the opportunity to have a chat with you.

    Here is my take, first for the Chinese SU35 and their 5th gen, stealth plans. China is more threatened from the eastern borders and seas, and most probable threat is to their Air Defence system, like long range SAM system, gap filler surveillance ground radar units, Long range ground system, important communication and control centers etc. Their present and probable enemy is equipped with the LO planes such as F35 taking off from the US carriers and important airfields of island of South China Sea. Their primary objective would be to destroy the Air defence systems of PLAF, and PLA. So the Chinese objective would be to create the A2D (access Denial objective). This creates the requirement of the specific airframe called as J20, with long leg, and that could create anti access/area denial in their zones for the US lead forces's F35. And SU-35 is also the part of this plan, as it will be used primarily for the Strike operation in South China Sea. Yes I agree with your view, that the Chinese was bound to purchase Su-35, because they needed Russian assistant in Radar, and Engine tech., because I am not buying the Chineee propaganda of their AESA equipped J-10D bullshit rather than Russian Zhuk MMR with Chinese subcomponents, and chinese designated name called KJ-7, as the buying tech., blueprints from the Ukraine was not enough and the window of opportunity from the jobless former USSR scientists ended . But I believe SU-35 deal is more related to the J-20 development aka the subcomponents of the 5th Gen. package, and I again reminds that J-20 is the prime focus of the Chinese. Thus I disagree with your claim that Su35 is irralevant for the PLAN/PLAF rather they desperately need it for the strike role in South China Sea and to counter stealth threat which the Chinese is facing.

    Coming to SU-30 MKI, SU-27 Airframe equipped with 10 BVRAAM was designed in response to US legendary F-15, but IAF was not impressed with su-27, and after negotiation, and when Russian offered N011M BARS PESA Radar, with twin seat configuration, IAF was impressed. The advantages were many which increases the IAF capabilities multifold such as
    • Long legged, so that IAF now could transfer its fleet to other part of the border quickly.
    • Twin Seat configuration, with a WSO for interleaved operation.
    • Better fuel and weapon carrying capability.
    • Superior thrust, altitude giving distinctive advantage of first detection and shoot upon the primary enemy PAF.
    • Could also form the Aerial control center for the fleet.
    Now coming why I said for the limited A2G capability is due to the same reason, why we need Rafale, since its airframe was never certified by its OEM for taking the G stress in lower altitude, but it has the A2G capability with the ALCM, and superior load carrying capability and with strengthening of its airframe, with 3 Brahmos Mini it will give distintive advantage to fire those on the hardened target from strandoff distance aka for DEAD and after upgrade to the Super Sukhoi Standard further improve this capability, and some MKI will be used for the SEAD mission, and for that Aerial Decoy MK2, DARE developed Jammer, escort jammer, internal Aesa based jammer, MAWS, RWR will be added or upgraded.

    As far as the engine upgrade is concerned, the new engine have highter TSL, thrust, and overhaul mean time.

    Few questions for you

    1. How many SU-30MKI are going for the Super Sukhoi Upgrade.
    2. The estimated cost for this upgrade is 12 Billion for first 50, is it too costly.
    3. Does the Super Sukhoi upgrade includes the L and S band radar from PAK FA on its wings, giving the all around sensing capability.
    4. If the upgrade replaces the present Bars radar, rather than upgrade, does the canard would be removed.
    5. What will be the final number of MKI in IAF.
     
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  15. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    True, most of the upgraded fighters can drop guided bombs today, but most of them can't carry as many bomb's, haven't the EW and self defence capabilities, or the range of an MKI. The upgraded MKI for example can carry up to 5 x 500Kg guided bombs, a targeting pod and 4 x AAMs for self protection. To do the same mission IAF otherwise needs 3 x upgraded Jags + additional escorts fighters.
    For LCA or Mirage 2000s the ratio is similar, since these fighters have load restrictions too. So using MKI even in CAS roles can actually be more efficient for IAF.

    Lol, too much honor for a normal forumer but thx.

    First of all you seem to mix up Su 34 and Su 35. The earlier is a varient of the Flanker family, specifically geared for strike roles. The Su 35 on the other hand is a single seat, air superiority fighter with multi role capabilities. All multi role Flanker share the same number of hardpoints and can basically use the same weapons too.
    For the anti ship/strike role, China bought the Su 30 MKK with Russian weapons long ago and keep in mind that they have their own carrier version of the Flanker too.
    So all the Su 35 actually adds to Chinas capabilities, are radar and maybe more importantly the engine technologies, that their versions didn't had so far.

    The general upgrade is for all MKIs, since it's part of the life extention, which starts with an overhaul of the airframe and engines. If all MKIs however will be upgraded to carry current version of Brahmos is doubtful. I asume they limit it to a few squads and wait for Brahmos mini for the rest.
    I didn't followed the cost reports in the last few years, maybe @Abingdonboy can answer that.
    There were tests made by the Russians to include sensors in the tail fins of the Flankers, but I haven't read any report of such kits for MKI upgrade and Pak Fa techs are still under development, too early to share.
    We had both offers either to replace Bars PESA with Zhuk AESA, or to upgrade the BARS in 2 steps to BARS AESA (first step would bring the PESA to a comparable level as IRBIS E). Not sure what decision was taken now.
    So far 270 which includes some replacements of crashed fighers.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
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