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Su-30MKI Multirole Fighter Aircraft and Super 30 Upgrade News, Discussions..

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Dark_Prince, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. lca-fan

    lca-fan Captain FULL MEMBER

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    INDIA TO SELL SUKHOI SPARES TO MALAYSIA
    THURSDAY, APRIL 06, 2017 BY INDIANDEFENSE NEWS

    [​IMG]
    A Malaysian Sukhoi Su-30MKM fighter Jet during a sortie, India to sell Sukhoi Su-30 spares, in return buy Mig-29 fighters
    India is keen to buy MiG-29 aircraft from Malaysia, upgrade them for use by its air force in return for Sukhoi fighter spares to Kuala Lumpur.
    Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak said the proposal was among the aspects of military cooperation agreed to by Malaysia and India, New Straits Times reported Wednesday.
    "There is a possibility too that they will buy our MiG-29 aircraft for refit. We reciprocate by accepting spare parts for our Sukhoi aircraft program," he told a media conference at the end of a six-day visit to India which started on March 30 in Chennai.
    The Malaysian Ministry of Defence and the Royal Malaysian Air Force (TUDM) would look at the form of cooperation, including handling the Sukhoi aircraft and spare parts.
    The Royal Malaysian Air Force in 1995 procured 18 MiG-29N from Russia,, and presently has 10 MiG-29N and 2 MiG-29NU (trainers) in its fleet.
    http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/04/india-to-sell-sukhoi-spares-to-malaysia.html
     
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  2. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Buzz in the air suggests
    • The engine tested recently was 117S by IAF
    • The thrust may be curtailed a bit to prolong engine life
    • The focus seems to be on maintenance and performance nature of this engine
    • The same points will be part of super sukhoi contract from day 1 for the availability clause.
     
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  3. Grevion

    Grevion Think Tank TROLL ELITE MEMBER

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    Phaleez elaborate..
     
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  4. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    117S - afterburning turbofan engine with variable axisymmetric vectoring nozzle (deep thrust-life modernization of the AL-31FP engine).

    Application
    117S engine has been created by NPO Saturn (Luylka Design Bureau) for Su-35 multirole fighter developed by Sukhoi Company. Geometry and mounts of the 117S engine are similar to its predecessors, i.e. AL-31F and AL-31FP engines. This gives an opportunity to use the 117S engine, with slightly retrofitted engine nacelle and equipment, for the re-engining of earlier built Sukhoi-27/30 fighters, operational by Russian and foreign Air Forces.

    [​IMG]

    Advantages
    The 117S engine thrust has been increased by 16% (up to 14500 kgf) compared to the base AL-31FP engine, the ultimate life has been increased twice (up to 4 000 hours), keeping the same weight and overall dimensions. Such high parameters are attained thanks to application of:
    • new high-tech LP compressor with increased air consumption and efficiency
    • high efficiency turbine with increased reliability and improved blade cooling system
    • new digital engine control system integrated to aircraft flight control system

    Specification (H=0, M=0, MCA)
    Engine 117S
    Maximum afterburning thrust, kgf 14 500
    Combat mode thrust:
    • full afterburning thrust, kgf 14000
    • maximum dry thrust, kgf 8800
    Ultimate service life, h 4 000

    http://www.npo-saturn.ru/index_old.php?sat=64&slang=1

    +++
    Plan is to limit thrust a bit to prolong engine life to reach a standard 6000 hours and spread out the maintainence interval.
    For this Russian side will come back after due consultations.
     
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  5. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    Doubtful, since IAF is clear about the squadron numbers they wanted, but some air bases were raised with 2 squads and we know that there are more produced fighters, than officially in squadron service.
     
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  6. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    The threat analysis almost 2 decades ago [at the time of Su30MKI deal] cannot be applied today. Requirements are not the same as it was deemed to be then.


    Further till now, the only voices who have said "No more Flankers " are unnamed sources.

    Untill I see a statement from IAF or MoD , I don't believe that IAF won't go for more because it has had what it planned to have more than 25 years ago to be in a ideal situation. But today the situation is totally opposite.
     
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  7. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    Since our discussion is mainly about Su 30, let's continue here.

    Of course, the idea of IAF certainly is to change the squadron number of mainly single role fighters to the same or even more squadron's of multi role fighters, basically doubling their capabilities. But the delays in procurements and development of LCA, just as the early retirement of the Mig 27s works against them.

    We can safely assume that IAF has a decade of compromises ahead of them, till they have the fighters and the numbers according to their plans.

    But at the end of the day, defence and aviation capabilities are changing dramatically. An LCA offers the same strike capability as a Jaguar or a Mig 27 in the past. We see drones taking over recon and CAS roles and with the addition of stealth fighters and UCAVS, IAFs deployment tactics will change completely as well. So there is a huge gap between current plans and the reality, IAF simply has to adjust to it. And to be honest, I doubt they have forseen the policies and plans of the current government either, but they will effect them a lot. I would love to talk to an IAF official privately, to know what he thinks about just 36 MMRCAs, possibly 2nd hand fighters, no stealth fighter any time soon, force multipliers like A330MRTT cancelled and what they think about the way the LUH deal went.
     
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  8. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    The problems complicate as even the LCA is in problems, our Indian UAV programs are in shambles, our Foreign UAV imports are no where near our needs, our air defence capability has seen a boost with Akash, Spyder and Barak 8, but still not all corners are covered.

    We still don't have a reliable Laser based and GPS/INS based PGM guided system yet for making our dumb bombs smart.

    Our radar programs are slow.

    AWACS are stuck . Tankers andTransport aircraft are nowhere to be seen.

    In short nothing big has happened after the 2014 elections.
     
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  9. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    That's not correct, when former DM Parrikar publicly said, that we don't have to buy Rafale and buy more MKIs instead, former Air Chief Raha also publicly rejected that.

    https://www.livefistdefence.com/2015/02/rafale-sukhoi-cant-replace-each-other.html

    He even stated that on several occasions afaik, but now we have a new chief and a new DM, who knows.
     
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  10. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    I see the chiefs statement as not against more flankers , but against flankers being a substitute of Rafales. :angel:
     
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  11. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    Which is the funny thing, because we see these reports and figures about "cleared" procurements, but in reality, things don't look good at all.
    I'm still trying to catch up with the news and developments of the last 2 years, but from what Ihave seen so far, IA is the only force that actually seems to benefit with new stuff. IAF partially, IN should be angry and disappointed as hell.
    And even the things they get are often not those they wanted or not in the numbers. At least in that regard they must wish Antony back, since he didn't made political deals and listend to what they wanted. Only the blacklisting issue was his problem.
     
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  12. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    Hehe, well hope is always a good thing and since we don't get FGFA into production from 2019 onwards, HAL could extend the MKI production line if necessary, but I would prefer some some off the shelf Pak Fa's, China is simply getting too far ahead.
     
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  13. Bregs

    Bregs 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    who knows the way govt is sitting clueless after signing of 36 Rafales and zero progress so far in idiotic single engine fighter tender again, they might be thinking of adding more upgraded su30mki and couple of more sq of Rafales and as a result decrease the number of sq strength since high end fighters will be replacing MIG21/27 and later jagauars. But IAF deal and with it the doctorine of use of MMRCA has surely been destroyed by cancellation of this deal.

    Now moot question is if single engine fighter is going to make up rest of MMRCA then what was the use of initial requirement of 126 MMRCA in IAF dcotorine. and what about IN getting which fighter for its Vishal ? Last Rafale will come in april 2022 and what will happen then of IAF sq strength

    Everything has been messed up and Antony part 2 is continuing with changed rhetoric and faces in govt
     
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  14. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    Well IAF always wanted a medium class fighter and the F16 fits the bill, Gripen E at least to an extend.
    Carrier fighter are a different issue, since there are more specific requirements to fulfil (I made a post about that in the naval mmrca thread), also could have political necessities included (catapults for US aircrafts). Not to mention that we have too many Indians that still cry foul about IN's rejection of NLCA.
     
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  15. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Why Super-30 Should have been all about Westernisation of Sukhoi Su-30MKI fleet
    Published April 19, 2017
    SOURCE: Satyajeet Kumar/ FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG

    [​IMG]

    Sukhoi Su-30MKI is considered among Top 4.5 generation fighter aircraft in the world today and no doubt it can also give good fight to any 5th Generation fighter too in closely contested Dogfight, what makes Sukhoi Su-30MKI so advance is also because it is the first aircraft of Russian origin which is equipped with avionics, tweaked FCR and targeting pods developed by India, Israel and France .

    Under Super-30 upgrade program, India plans to further enhance its Sukhoi Su-30MKI fleet to bring it as much as closer to 5th generation fighter jet in terms of technology and also to keep them modern and relevant in changing aerial threat environment all around.

    No doubt Under Super-30 upgrade program, Sukhoi Su-30MKI fleet will be at par with most of 4.5++ generation fighter jets and India can also brag that it operates one of the most advanced Sukhoi Su-30 in the world but flaws regarding usage of Russian technology will continue to haunt India and even after upgrades there is no evidence to suggest that operational availability of Sukhoi Su-30MKI fleet in Indian Air Force will actually improve over 75% as desired by India.

    Super-30 Upgrade should never had to be the usage of more Russian technology but rather it could have been rather using more western technology to get desired results from the jet in terms of operational availability. One of the major flaws in the Sukhoi Su-30MKI seems to AL-31F engines which combined with poor spares makes IAF’s desired operational availability over 75% quite difficult. Russians sensing Indian frustration have offered new upgraded engines but there is not guarantee that new engines will have better serviceability and will come with better service intervals.

    India by deciding to stick with the usage of Russian technology for Super-30 Upgrade has missed a golden opportunity in correcting flaws in Sukhoi Su-30MKI fleet by replacing many Russian components with western or indigenous ones.
     
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