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Sukhoi Su-57 / PAK FA 5th Generation Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by tariqkhan18, Jun 30, 2010.

  1. PatriotSniper

    PatriotSniper 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    You can take all your West sponsored stats and shove it up your ass...!!

    Every single one of your Space Launchers/Space Crafts/Space Shuttle is a success because it has Stage Combustion Cycle using Rocket Engines & Gas Generator Cycle using Rocket Engines which you guys blatantly copied from RUSSIANS who were its inventors

    You guys haven't been able to till date develop a better alternate to the Russian engine concepts nor in the near future have I read you guys plan to develop an engine concept which is even fractionally better

    NASA is the biggest joke I have ever seen in my life - for all their budget (which is more than all the rest of the space agencies combined) they should have been pioneers of everything but if you dig deep you will realise it must be called Copied Aeronautical Space Agency
     
  2. HMS Astute

    HMS Astute BANNED BANNED

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    Not sure how much scientists in Russia or India earn, but the staffs work for NASA do get actually paid a ridiculous salary.
     
  3. PatriotSniper

    PatriotSniper 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Whats the whole point..? Russians pioneered Space Tech, Indians/Chinese do it in the most cost effective way, Europeans do it with a balance of all - what the hell is NASA doing..? Most of NASA's scientists who actually do most of the work are either from Eastern Europe/India

    Sorry Mods, will stick to topic
     
  4. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    They find interplanetary missions irrelevant for now. They only think about making money, so near earth missions are more important.
     
  5. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Russia does not find interplanetary missions irrelevant as they do impossible.
     
  6. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    You might want to look up who first successfully put a landing craft on Mars just after Neil Armstrong landed on the moon.
     
  7. PatriotSniper

    PatriotSniper 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Please delete and post in Science & Technology Section, this is PAK-FA thread
     
  8. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    If India has this much trouble upgrading Mirage, you wonder how much trouble they are going to have with the PAKFA especially considering the fact they know have trouble getting spare parts from Russia.

    Procurement: Indian Mirage Upgrade Is A Mirage

    October 21, 2014: Back in 2006 India decided to upgrade its 52 (now 49) Mirage 2000 fighters, at a cost of $35 million each. The upgrade is still not complete and the cost has grown to $45 million per aircraft. Part of the delay was due to Indian insistence that most of the work be done in India. That meant Indian technicians had to be trained, often in France and special tools and equipment had to be obtained from France. The Indian military procurement bureaucracy is famous (or infamous) for its sloth and inefficiency and that has been a big part of the problem with getting the upgrades done.
    Another example of that is the inability of Indian procurement officials to approve orders for spare parts for the Mirage 2000s, as well as for the items needed for the upgrades. Because of the delays in getting needed spares at least a dozen of the Mirage 2000s are grounded, some of them since 2010. It is also difficult to get politicians to agree on things like upgrades to older equipment, but the larger problem is the inefficient and often ineffective procurement officials.
    So far two Mirage 2000s have completed the upgrade but are awaiting certification. That might take years. The Indian firm doing the upgrades say they can upgrade ten Mirage 2000s a year but no one with a knowledge of how these things work in India believes that.
    The upgraded Mirage 2000s are getting new radar with 90 kilometers range (a 20 percent increase). The new fire control systems, modern electronic warfare systems and digital communications will make the Mirage 2000s capable of handling the most modern Pakistani and Chinese fighters. Other components (like the airframe and engines) were also to be refurbished. After the upgrade, the twenty year old Mirage 2000s would be good for another twenty. The upgrade price includes a supply of MICA, long range (50 kilometers) radar guided missiles which are similar to the U.S. AMRAAM.
    While expensive, the upgrade would turn the Mirage 2000 fighters into long range air-to-air killers. These aircraft could very efficiently knock down their Chinese or Pakistani opponents (which are equipped with less capable Chinese FD-60 long range missiles.) Meanwhile Pakistan has received new F-16 fighters as well as upgrades for their older ones. Pakistan is al receiving American AMRAAM missiles as well. The Indians expect the French to provide electronic warfare equipment that can give AMRAAM a hard time. How well that works won't be seen until, and if, there's another large scale war between India and Pakistan. China uses copies of the latest Russian Su-30 fighters and the upgraded Mirage 2000s, as well as Indian Su-30s, are supposed to be competitive with those.
     
  9. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    That's a lot of horseshit. The two Mirages upgraded are in France. The French have already finished the upgrades and will deliver this year.

    Dassault flies first upgraded Indian Mirage - 10/8/2013 - Flight Global

    [​IMG]

    Your article was written by a Pakistani.
     
  10. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    I notice your article is a year older then the former article, can you find any updates

    September 2014: State of the fleet. AIN reports that a quarter of India’s Mirage 2000 fleet is grounded because a contract for spares has been stuck in the bureaucracy for years. This means some planes are scavenged for parts.
    Meanwhile, the 2 aircraft upgraded in France are awaiting certification. Beyond that, the 7-year timeline to complete the upgrades seems optimistic in light of HAL’s habitual tardiness. At least their staff has reportedly already been trained in France. Source: AIN – Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 Upgrade Progresses Despite Groundings.

    Defense Industry Daily.
     
  11. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Finmeccanica Ban To Affect Indian MMRCA, Mirage Upgrade Projects?
    Source : Bindiya Thomas ~ Dated : Wednesday, August 6, 2014 @ 10:33 AM
    Views : 2856 A- A A+
    [​IMG]
    Finmeccanica Ban To Affect Indian MMRCA, Mirage Upgrade Projects?
    India’s long-awaited MMRCA project with Dassault could be affected in the wake of New Delhi’s decision to stay all future projects with Finmeccanica, its subsidiaries and affiliates.
    Finmeccanica holds a 25 per cent share in MBDA, a joint venture with EADS (now Airbus) and BAE Systems, which is pitching its Meteor air-to-air missile to India as a weapon for its planned fleet of 126 Rafale fighters.
    “This is ideal for the Rafale,” an MBDA official told Aviation Week last year. “It’s already part of the French fighter. India will just need to plug [it] in.”
    The missile is in its preproduction phase and has been designated by the U.K., Germany, France, Italy, Sweden and Spain for their future beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile requirement, the report added.
    The Meteor deal is only one of many projects MDBA is hoping to nab in India.
     
  12. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    No, this deal is fine. Finmeccanica can continue to deal with India directly also. Consortium projects are not affected. Innocent until proven guilty.

    And the grounding of the Mirage-2000 has nothing to do with the upgrades. IAF is perhaps hoping to reduce cost of spares once HAL starts manufacturing them in India, that's probably why they are holding off on ordering them from France.

    Upgrades of this scale take time. Even the F-15 upgrade for the National Guard started in 2005 and finished in 2010. And unlike the US, for the Mirage upgrade, two or more countries are involved. So the bureaucratic procedure alone takes a long time.
     
  13. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Mirage Upgrade Projects 45 million per upgrade, new F35s Unit Recurring Flyaway (URF) cost for an F-35A of between $80-85 million looking like a steal. PAK FA 5 10, 15 years from now, cost unbelievable.
     
  14. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    We don't kill a plane grounded, but still 943 million for 36 engines it makes 26.2 million per engine. What is the magnitude of the retrofit of the Mirage 2000 if we consider the set of services included in the contract, including the purchase of a complete set of MICA missiles.

    F-35 Test Jets to Undergo ‘Burn In’ for F135 Engine Fix | Defense content from Aviation Week
     
    omya likes this.
  15. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    One has to remember the Mirage 2000 is a 1978 plane, 35 year old, really older technology, designed in the late 60s, and looking at 45 million update. While a new F35 is going to be around 85 million. Sounds kind of desperate, of course India is at the mercy of the French, they are going to have to pay what ever France wants.
     

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