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Sukhoi Su-57 / PAK FA 5th Generation Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by tariqkhan18, Jun 30, 2010.

  1. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Actually the main reason was Northrop and mcdouglass's performances on the b-2 and a-12. Air Force was hella pissed at those two companies. Beyond that the yf-23 was projected to be way more expensive. Like 20 mil + per unit.

    I don't think we ever actually saw the results of the classified tests so it's unlikely the specs on the two planes are anything more than speculation.

    Even if it's true, the F-35 design philosophy should demonstrate which traits the usaf values now.

    Completely contrary to the the Russian air design philosophy of course.
     
  2. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    No one has ever seen or locked on to F-22 in any Red Flag exercise. How has the super maneuverability helped the aircraft?
     
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  3. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Both adds to it together, since manoeuvring can get the missile or the enemy radar lose lock on you. If you fly straight instead, you are totally dependent on the countermeasures alone and can't counter the enemy radar either. Your data link example, works only if you are in the FoV of the enemy's radar. That's why Pak Fa's side arrays or repositioner systems increases the FoV to maintain radar lock and provide mid course data to the missile.

    1. EW and passive sensors (survivability and to get long range detection capability, without giving away your presence)
    2. Internal fuel and payload (because any need of exernal payloads, counters the stealth approach)
    3. Signature reductions
    4. SEAD and precision strike capability (since stealth aircrafts are the most survivable, which makes them the first choice for preempted strikes)
    5. Flight performance (for direct A2A combats, or to avoid attacks as explained).
     
  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Not necessarily. Any stealth fighter pilot would not use it's missiles from long distances and in an head to head engagement. You have the first sight advantage and move yourself outside of the enemy radars FoV and in close enough distance to give the target low reaction time. So launching a missile from the sides or behind the target without active radar or missile seekers, would give the highest kill probability, while remaining undetected.
     
  5. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Most passive MAWs have ability to detect missile motor burn. very few have the ability to detect the hot section of Missile after motor burn out. A BVR launch must take place either from a distance of over 40 miles or the launch will be detected giving away the position of launch aircraft.
    In case of 5th gen aircraft, the BVR launch is not an option as they both will detect each other at very close ranges. That range will be on the extremes of WVR. So a 5th gen aircraft must have the ability to target aircraft of 5th Gen within WVR. Or be in a position to launch and scoot. for that you need passive detection as the active detection is no more an advantage. when we talk of 5th gen fighters,we must only talk of WVR and passive targeting.
     
  6. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Since most 4th gen fighters still lack full MAWS capability, that will only effect the latest once and 5th gen fighters.

    Which is not an issue if the target can get IDed via IRST or electro optics. That's where the FSO / MICA IR combo should be an example for any stealth fighter. Not to mention that Meteor like missiles would be well within their no escape zones at that range, IF they can get a lock.
     
  7. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
  8. Vidyanshu

    Vidyanshu Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Sir, no one has ever locked on to F-22 because of its stealth. YF-23 was equal or slightly more stealthy, and would have given same results in any AF exercise. But YF-22 was slightly more maneuverable and costed less.

    However, I agree that none of these matters if the enemy can't see you:cheesy:.
     
  9. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Ladies and Gentlemen , I present to you Bort 511 blue, the 9th flying prototype of the Su-57/PAK-FA.
    It is one of the phase 2 series.

    This aircraft had spread its its wings for the first time on Aug 6th at Knaaz in Komsomolsk on Amur. Technically this is the 11 th Pak-fa prototype and the 10th flyworthy one. It had its first flight before Bort 510 which as far we know is undergoing some last minute mods to its engine bays.

    Bort 511 sports a dual tone deep grey dark blue digital paint scheme. She also has the full electro optical 101 KS Atoll suite- KS-U missile warning approach system, KS-V IRST employing the revolutionary QWIP technology KS-O DIRCM which is a hardkill countermeasures system for IR guided air to air and surface to air missiles. Bort 511 is also hauling two big 2000 l drop tanks . This is to increase its ferry range and allowed the aIR craft to make less no of stops on its ferry flight from KnAAPO to Zhukovsky.

    Bort 511 also seems to sport the full N036 Byelka MIRES comprising of the nose mounted N036-1-01 radar with 1552 TR elements,the cheek areas arrays N036B-1-01 having 404 TR elements and the tail stinger installed areas unit. This serves both as a surveillance and tracking radar,a FCR and an ECM unit. From the pics it is still not clear whether this aircraft has the wing leading edge slat mounted L band aesa arrays.

    Phase 2 birds have the following improvements over Phase-1-

    1. Significant rework of the structural airframe and other load bearing elements . The fuselage wings and control elements have been beefed up structurally so as to enable them to sustain more Gs and higher stress loads.

    2. An increase in the percentage of CFC composites as part of the wetted area and also as a portion of the empty structural weight. This phase also uses exotic composite materials besides the usual CfC.

    3. The engine cowlings are manufactured from high temperature resistant PMC .As you can see there are no bare metal engine surface on these birds apart from the swivelling nozzles. This reduces the beam and aft RCS.

    4. Presence of the cheek aesa arrays.

    5. The earlier bleed and spill air intakes have been replaced with new stealthy mesh coverings. The gill air intake on the sides of the intake nacelles are now wedge shaped . This too reduces the radar signature.

    6. The main weapon bay doors have more zig zag serrations compared to the phase 1 birds.

    7. The leading edge of the main landing gear doors have more serrations. This is another measure to reduce Rcs.

    8. Phase 2 birds have partial to complete Ram treatment of the fuselage and wing surfaces.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The additional differences (along with what i already mentioned in my last post) of Phase2 from Phase 1 are:
    1 - Strengthened body (especially in upper spine zone that takes the main load from MWBs and wing consoles).
    2 - All body and outer parts strength and thermal optimized for long lasting on 2.1M supercruise and 2.48M full speeds.
    3 - New composites-made engine cowlings.
    4 - Stealth improvements in air intakes and forward fuselage areas.
    5 - New, aerodynamically optimized FSBs (quick side weapons bays).
    6 - Full L-402 Gimalayi ESM/ECM suite "smart skin" installation.
    7 - New canopy sections with solid rear part of different shape and layers structure.

    Stay tuned for more updates until HQ images not received...
     
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  11. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    It's L402 Himalaya.
     
  12. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    yup, but it is also known as Gimalayi.
    google translate
     
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Gimalai is Russian transliteration for Himalaya.

    Гималаи
     
  14. ranadd

    ranadd 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    So it means Gimalai is the correct term. Not Himalaya. Since it's a Russian product. What they say is the correct terminology. Not what it's based off of.
     
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  15. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Yeah. We use Russian transliterated words anyway. Belkya, Irbis, Bars, Khibiny, so on...
     
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