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Sukhoi Su-57 / PAK FA 5th Generation Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by tariqkhan18, Jun 30, 2010.

  1. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    https://scout.com/military/warrior/...s-New-Su-57-vs-Americas-F-22-Raptor-109232783
     
  2. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Meh, they keep making up stuff for the sake of propaganda. I don't even know why they bother so much.

    No. The Su-57 places emphasis on stealth also. It's VLO.

    This shows how ignorant they are about the program.

    Since day 1, the LSPs were supposed to be powered by the 117. The Russians were supposed to induct 55 Stage 1 jets with 117 by 2020. The Type 30 was not expected until after 2020 since the beginning. Type 30 is for the Stage 2 jet.

    And no, it's not the same engine as the Su-35. The Su-35's engines are older tech, less capable and heavier. The 117 has few less compressor stages and is 150Kg lighter.

    This assumption is wrong. What's special about the Su-57 is not speed, it is range. The Su-57 carries more fuel than the F-22 and has more fuel efficient engines than the F-22. This allows the Su-57 to stay at supersonic speeds much longer. Otherwise, the F-22 has similar speed as the Su-57, slightly slower. The basic range of the Su-57 is anywhere between 1000 to 2000 Km more than the F-22's. That's among the reasons why the Su-57 has twice the supercruise range as the F-22.

    Great. But the Su-57 will have more stealth, more maneuverability, more altitude, more range, more weapons and better electronics than the F-22.

    Let's just move on to the PCA. That's the aircraft the Su-57 will be competitive with.
     
  3. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Paid article to promote F-35.

    For the record and a good suggestion for you always stop reading whenever you find this Magical Words "Senior IAF Official/Spoke persons/leader ship etc" for example

    <i>Senior IAF leadership recently expressed apprehension to the Ministry of Defence, claiming the proposed FGFA program with Russia does not meet desired requirements like U.S. F-35 fighter type capabilities, disclosed a senior IAF official. That official added, that “IAF is not keen to continue with the program.”</i>
     
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  4. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    It's funny, but I got told the exact opposite when it came to a senior IAF spokesperson reporting the results of a training exercise.
     
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  5. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    That result should be taken as a pinch of salt, since the motive of those excercise is to allow the interaction, learn and experience how other airforce works and tactics they have created, and to create the trust, practice to participate in the multi nation/airforce exercise. BTW, ever heard of Twisting of the Words -- that's suits perfectly to the media, and I am sure for the Indian media to create the sensation for the daily doze of headlines, that's why I prefer direct interview or the author/article quoting the exact words, or the once writen by expert author having good defence knowledge -- rest left for the Chit chatting in the forums.
     
  6. SR-91

    SR-91 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    What is PCA?
     
  7. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Penetrating Counter Air. It's a next gen program after the F-22.
     
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  8. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    The article didn't said that it's not vlo, but there are different design / development aims and they are right about that.
    While F22 is focused mainly on avoiding radar detection, by the stealth design, the Su 57 prime focus is on active and passive detection, as well on EW, which is more aligned to the current gen of air war fare.
    The F35 is not different in that regard and places priority on detection and EW, while stealth design is secondary only.

    Priorities:

    F22
    1 - stealth
    2 - flight performance
    3 - radar and EW

    F35
    1 - radar and EW
    2 - stealth
    3 - internal capacity

    Su 57
    1 - radar/IRST and EW
    2 - flight performance
    3 - stealth

    No it's not, the design is aimed on low drag and high speeds, especially for high supercruise speeds.
    The range is a side benefit the large overall size, especially of the wings.

    The article is not trying to say the F22 is better, but to show the difference in design and development goals:

    This is more than evident by the focus on long range detection, long range missiles and high flight performance. They basically mixed the benefits of the Mig 31 (high speed and ceiling) and the Su 35 (detection, EW, manuverability and range), developed them to the next level and implemented all together into a vlo airframe.
     
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  9. proud_indian

    proud_indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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  10. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    HAL will want FGFA to ensure that its Nasik line remains open. Even if the product is third rate.
     
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  11. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    FGFA will be Better than Rafale ; all it needs is Time
     
  12. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    The American "priorities" are not important.

    And the F-35 is more stealthy than the F-22.

    The article is trying to pit the F-22 vs the PAK FA while using made up information.

    The article is trying to say the F-22 has some strengths, the PAK FA has some. But I'm saying the PAK FA beats the F-22 in pretty much every parameter. They have been far too reliant on the Stage 1 program, which is only half the PAK FA program.

    Even with Stage 1, the PAK FA has pretty big advantages with respect to performance even with a less powerful engine. For example, Stage 1 and F-22 could both carry the same amount of fuel and the PAK FA would still outrange it and also demonstrate similar TWR.

    And they are saying that the Stage 1 engine will be uprated by 1 ton by the time it hits production, so the PAK FA will be lighter than the F-22, will carry more fuel and have very similar thrust.

    This is all simply general progress that has been repeating since WW2.
     
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    The FGFA will be better than anything the world has ever seen.

    And when it is ready, even the biggest critics will sing praises for the aircraft, just like they did after the MKI was inducted and tested.
     
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  14. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Again, don't make a cheap Vs out of it, when that's not what the article is about.
    The differences in design and development goals, give insides in the differences of tactics and strategies too and the article is pointing this out.
     
  15. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Su 57 is better than Rafale already, all we need is to buy it. But then again, both serve different requirements and would in fact complement each other pretty perfectly!

    Su 57 in front at high altitude, as a low detectable sensor phalanx, guiding and protecting following Rafale strike packages at low level, would be the ultimate deep strike package!!!
     
    Gessler likes this.

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