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T-90 Bhishma / T-72 Ajeya of Indian Army : News and Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by SpArK, Oct 21, 2010.

  1. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod MODERATOR

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    Can you explain this a bit further, I would like to know a bit more about these Arjun specific budgetary constrains.
     
  2. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Arjun costs twice as much in unit costs, and many times more in support infrastructure.

    T-90 came in at half the price and uses the T-72's infrastructure.

    It's not specific to Arjun alone, it's just about being smart and using your money the right way. By the time the Arjun was ready, we had already purchased 600+ T-90s, so it made sense to invest in the T-90.

    In an operational capacity, as Hellfire pointed out, Arjun can't be used in enemy territory due to issues with logistics.
     
    Lion of Rajputana likes this.
  3. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Can't be used in enemy territory??? please elaborate
     
  4. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Captain FULL MEMBER

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    I believe it's a weight and logistics issue.
     
  5. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Elaborate - what is this weight and logistics issues ... what does it mean?? if you say it can't be transported to the front - sorry that issue has already been solved many years back!

    Sorry but i find this weight and logistics issues are just excuses being used for a very long time now!
     
  6. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Tank logistics is humongous and complicated. Maintenance depots and workshops move with the tanks inside enemy territory. We can't afford to replace what we have.

    IA didn't have anything that could carry Arjun, right from the trains to the bridges. Buying Arjun meant we also had to buy rail carriages, bridge layers, recovery vehicles etc.
     
  7. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Yup. Tech has been inducted.

    The cost over the equipment replacement cycle?

    And what about crossing DCBs on the other side? Which culverts of the rural Indian Subcontinent are certified at MLC 70? MLC 50 are still common between PA and IA. So the logistic 'line;' placement costs?

    I am sure you can appreciate that mere induction of the equipment is not the only cost being expended. You also have to factor in the costs already incurred in inducting a platform and ancillaries when the equipment failed to come in time, the costs to be incurred to not only induct the 'indigenous' equipment but also to build up the associated infrastructure and ancillaries and the relative advantage of the technology being brought to table by inducting this 'indigenous' equipment to replace a product which was inducted along with ancillaries to fill the void which was to be filled by the 'indigenous' equipment in the first place? In simple terms - duplication of effort and resources.

    What exact generational/operational advantage is brought in inducting Arjun today or say 3 years back? Now I am intrigued......
     
  8. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

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    ???? .... sorry that is where you are wrong

    Already built are trailers both for both rail and road

    Heck .... the ARV based on the Arjun is built and awaiting trails!



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  9. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    When did induction of T-90s begin?

    Collate
     
  10. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Will someone really tell me the generational/operational leap that Arjun today brings to table?
     
  11. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    I can ask for introduction of 106 mm RCL of IA into BSF units .... what is the use of giving them those today when they can get a Carl Gustav instead?
     
  12. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

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    I don't know nor i have that data.

    If you do please share else .... all you say is speculation
     
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    So you want me to buy socks today and shoes after 1 year?
     
  14. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    It is a simple logical query.

    I will draw an Analogy.

    I needed Item A. To use Item A, I needed A1, A2 and A3. To get them functional, A has to work with A1, A2 And A3 and all entail costs as neither A, nor A1, A2 or A3 are in market.

    Now Item A was not expected to come to me when I needed it, say on date X.

    So, being the prospective planner that I am, I looked for similar products on Flipkart and I came across B and looked at it as A got delayed in development. I needed something that could replace A, and I found Item B (and it was an upgraded version of what I was using today another Item C). Now when I got Item B, A was not in market and B was.

    A was going to be produced by my street corner shop and was sure more convenient in terms of being in my area, and B was online on Flipkart. Anyways, as with A, B also needed B1. B2 and B3 to work. So, since the corner shop guy told me that the A item was being produced and then A1, A2 and A3 will start being developed, I looked at B, saw B1, B2 and B3 being with me almost as I was already using an item C with it's ancillaries C1, C2 and C3, B being it's developed version of C and C1, C2 & C3 catering to B too.

    So I ordered B, and looked at C's ancillaries C1, C2, C3 which were already with me, and which needed at maximum a little bit of retooling to update to B1, B2 and B3 standards (if at all). So, I spent on purchase of B and ordering additional C1, C2 and C3 to make up numbers as add on orders to already existing orders with the shop next to the corner shop (which was making item C next to shop making item A, both in my area), and ended up having C with C1, C2, C3 and B with C1, C2 and C3 (and minimal if any, costs on uprating them to support B).

    Now I use these for 6 years. And I invest in maintenance, upgrading and building up my inventory to last me another 10 years (example of time frame only). Now the corner shop guy comes and says induct A. A1 is being developed. A2, to be used by another department, is being developed by another shop which is retooling itself to build A2 (C2 is already being fabricated by that shop in routine shipment not exclusive to A) and A3 will also be coming along shortly.

    Now the costs that I have incurred/will incur are as under:


    1. Purchase of B.
    2. Additional orders of B1(C1), B2(C2) and B3(C3) (and expense on additional upgrades if any).
    3. Inventory stocks of B and C1, C2, C3 [(B1)(B2)(B3)]
    4. Training my employee to use A instead of what he was using C and is now using B.
    5. Purchase of A.
    6. Purchase of A1, A2, A3
    7. Inventory Stocks of A, A1, A2, A3
    8. Costs of maintaining C, C1, C2, C3
    9. Costs of maintaining B
    10. Costs of Maintaining A, A1, A2, A3
    11. Costs of using B for 6 years.

    And my CA gave me Rs 100 to do all this 6 years earlier and gives Rs 110 now to do above 11 points without accounting for inflation.
    And difference between A and B/C? :)
     
  15. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

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    ??? Except for the ARV

    The rest are 2 - 3 years old pics are each are already in use
     

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