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Tejas far behind competitors, not enough to protect Indian skies: IAF

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by stephen cohen, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Angel Eyes

    Angel Eyes 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    bro going by your logic Pakistan was also occupied and converted to Islam....
     
  2. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    And that is how Mirage 2000 was killed ;)

    @randomradio has been posting the rationale post-facto, the advantage of a retrospective study. I was speaking about the prospective thought process in 1982 :D

    Recall the role of West German industries in ALH, Project Arjun and ofcourse SLV-3 :)

    Who gave the carbon composite know-how? Who, indeed, gave SLV a look akin to Scout :D?

    The Indian history of arms procurement has always been dictated by the Politics at that time ... :)
     
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  3. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Tejas cancellation is final

    Now it is up to Govt to select between F-16B70 and Gripen as India’s LCA
     
  4. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    That doesn't explain the lost decade. We should have at least had a Mig-29 line by then if not the M-2000.

    The Soviets had been collaborating with us even before the M-2000 was signed, like SLV-3. It wasn't just the Soviets, after 1983 we started collaborating with everybody. Granted the Soviets were dealing in tech that was a bit more off limits by western standards, even Chakra, but after the collapse we had a free run. The MTCR had ended missile collaboration beyond Prithvi anyway.

    Post Mig-29 to Su-30MKI, we had a nearly 15 year gap without any major aircraft orders. How do you explain that away with just politics?

    [​IMG]

    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/the-indian-economy-images-1987/1/328820.html

    This is what killed M-2000, not the Soviets, not politics. In fact domestic politics played a more crucial role because of the LCA program.

    From 1986 onwards, our economy was dead. 1986 and 1987 were both drought years. Then there was Brasstacks and Sri Lanka. M-2000 simply became unaffordable. It costed Rs 5Cr hard cash while the Mig-29 was Rs 2.5Cr with easy payment terms. The fact that we didn't have a Mig-29 line either shows that neither French pressure nor Russian pressure can ever surpass being broke.

    From 1991-95, let's forget for a moment that M-2000 was unaffordable. That very likable 13.7% inflation rate is worse than what we had recently. We could have had a M-2000 program at this time, but it didn't make sense then because the aircraft was at the end of its first tier development cycle, a more advanced M-2000-5 was going to become available after 1995 and it was logical and prudent to wait for that version. Even the basic Mig-29 was superior to the older version of M-2000, so why will anyone buy that? This is the same reason why I keep pointing out that we should wait for the Rafale F4 to become available before we start production.

    1996-2000, the economy normalized, similar to what's happening today, and we could sign big deals again. ADA promised delivery of M-2000 class LCAs by the year 2000. And the Russians offered the MKI with deep ToT which only mad men would refuse. IAF chose the MKI and M-2000 became unaffordable again.

    2001-2005, we ended up having more options like the F-16 and Gripen. So we setup the MRCA program. M-2000 became affordable, but the French killed the program.

    The rest is history.

    The Soviets may have delayed the M-2000 program, but that delay killed all our other programs also, including potential Soviet programs. :D
    The fact is the lack of money killed all our programs, Russian, French, American, British, it didn't matter who it was. No different from what's happened in the last 5 years.
     
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  5. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Your points are totally valid as a retrospective study. India in 1984 needed US $ 20 Billion investment in its armed forces over a period of 15-20 years to maintain an edge. Army Plan 2000 was the first casualty by 1990.


    That is for another day .... because story is of RG losing plot of what IG was planning. That is ... wait till data comes into open domain. Just ... it was unfinished business of 1971 and again what IG had planned for south.
     
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  6. kakathiya

    kakathiya FULL MEMBER

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    Our IAF wants F35 qualities in small Tejas it seems the griphen & F16 lobbyists have greased the palms of top IAF generals, remember tyagi brothers, lol.
     
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  7. kakathiya

    kakathiya FULL MEMBER

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    It seems modi has dried up their commissions, now they r desparate, r the migs they have r capable like grip hen & F16 if not why did they buy them?, lol.
     
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  8. HariPrasad

    HariPrasad Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Look at the golden ERA of vajpayee jis time. Rupee strengthen for 5 yeas and trade surplus generatated in 2004. 6 crore employment in 5 years.
     
  9. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    That time won’t come again as Chinese, Vietnam and Bangladeshi manufacturing are all leaving India behind thanks to India’s own disasters in economic planning
     
  10. HariPrasad

    HariPrasad Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Noe of what you say can compete India. China can not once again be a low cost producers because of rise in their currency value and improved leaving standard. BD shall fell very much behind India in skills, regulation and financial back up. Vietnam has some chances but it is too small to give India any competition.
     
  11. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    It is Chinese factories shifting to Vietnam themselves

    India still is at bottom of pile

    Even Sri Lanka is better option than India
     
  12. bharathp

    bharathp Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    maybe you should consider going there.. to SL..
     
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  13. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Factories and manufacturers are.

    Indians and others also
     
  14. Darshan gohel

    Darshan gohel IDF NewBie

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    hi bangladeshi do you feel shame in showing your real identity?
     
  15. Darshan gohel

    Darshan gohel IDF NewBie

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    bangladesh is worst than india it cant compete with india.
    lots of bds migrate to india to find jobs
     

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