Terrible State of Indian Artillery

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by MilSpec, Dec 22, 2016.

  1. Sathya
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    Sathya 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Smerch rockets ,did we have tot to manufacture?
    Isn't this the issue at present in expanding smerch ..
     
  2. Ankit Kumar 001
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    Ankit Kumar 001 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    @Hellfire clarifications please.
     
  3. R!CK
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    R!CK 2nd Lieutant THINK TANK

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    India And Russia In Deal To Make Smerch Rockets

    India has entered into an agreement with its largest defense partner, Russia, to manufacture Smerch rockets.

    A memorandum of understanding was signed between India’s Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) and Russia’s Rosoboronexport and Splav SPA on Aug. 27, following approval from Indian Defense Minister A.K. Antony, a defense ministry official says. OFB will manufacture five versions of the Smerch rocket, the official says. The rockets feature a range of up to 80 km (50 mi.). More than two regiments of the Smerch rockets have been in service in the Indian army following their induction about six years ago.

    On Dec. 31, 2005, India signed a $500 million contract with Russia for the supply of 28 Smerch multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) by 2008, along with another contract to upgrade the missiles of the Russian-built Grad MLRS acquired from Russia earlier.

    “Though India bought the Smerch in 2005 and 2006, Russia had refused to transfer the technology, despite the Indian army [complaining] of certain technical issues in the weapon system,” the official says.

    The two sides have been discussing the local production of Smerch missiles for a long time. The state-run Ordnance Factory Ambajari in western India will be producing the rockets. “About 90 percent of the know-how will be transferred, and majority of the work will be undertaken in India,” the official says.

    http://aviationweek.com/defense/india-and-russia-deal-make-smerch-rockets

    Good Day!
     
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  4. Sathya
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    Sathya 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I believe I recently read tot didn't happen. , and was supporting pinaka mk2
     
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  5. A_poster
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    A_poster 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I too respectfully disagree on these points.

    (1) MilSpec has already covered the point that utility of artillery was always that it could deliver large volume on and in vicinity of enemy thus shattering morale. Expecting CAS to do the same is massively overestimating efficacy of Airpower. Excepting this is similar to Hitler expecting to supply encircled 6th army solely by airpower, based on Goring's assurance.

    (2) Any conflict with Pakistan would either be final (nukes involved), or would be ephemeral. There is no chance of repeat of march to Dhaka. Thus when going to war with Pakistan in which we do not plan to hold territory, or march onto Islamabad, collateral damage is not only desirable, but necessary. A high volume, moderately accurate barrage, which while destroying a power relay station, also destroy everything in general area, would be much more desirable as it would increase cost of rebuilding for Pakistan. We could put in 30-120 conventional round for every Excalibur round, if we have enough guns to dispense them. In 120:1 ratio, conventional rounds would not only annihilate their target, but everything near it, even though they are less accurate than Excalibur rounds.

    (3) Self propelled artillery could keep pace with Armour, could be used for Tank destroying purpose from longer range than Tanks could, and could be used to provide artillery support when Armour has moved out of its own artillery envelop. Towed guns would have to be left behind as they would be too slow to catch up with Armour, else they would slow down whole strike group, and would need roads to get anywhere as they could not go offroad like Tanks and tracked artilley could thus necessitating capture of transport hubs.
     
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  6. MilSpec
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    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    The issue is for us to build 300 mm rockets which Russia wan't us to buy from them instead of making them in house. I wouldn't mind to see a 300mm version of Pinaka with INS guidance for the rockets, I believe we are already in process of doing the same for Pinaka Mk3 rockets in 214mm. And given that Pinaka Mk3 will out range smerch soon, there is no need to even negotiate with the Russians. If anything replace all smerchs with Pinaka and then sell it to a third party if any takers.
     
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  7. T-123456
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    T-123456 2nd Lieutant THINK TANK

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    Why not ask assistence from the US?
     
  8. MilSpec
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    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    This is one area where Indigenous tech exists and can easily replace smerchs.
     
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  9. Sathya
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    Sathya 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I think we are already buying or planning on miniature INS guidance systems for rockets and vehicles. .
     
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  10. NKVD
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    NKVD FULL MEMBER

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    Dhanush howtizer will do miracle if the project handled with care

    Both 45/52 cal can do wonders

    Minimum order's should be 500 for each caliber gun. Production should be sifted private sector same like Pinaka MBRL

    I think Army hq should permanently replace indian field guns with Bofors/Dhunsh

    SPH on the other hand is tough call

    Though iam still confused why army never opted for Soviet 152 cal SPH when they offered us on platers
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 25, 2016
  11. kaku
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    kaku Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    I am not saying this is very good situation, but only stating current prevailing situation. Right now IA trying to cover this loophole by CAS.

    About quality vs quantity. A arty that able to fire guided rounded always capable to fire unguided rounds as much as production allow.

    For export, or even for India how this become successful when NORINCO already providing various shells including guided for 155/52 arty.

    In 21st century, this is not about only doing "Fire for Effect" but also firing shells with precision when required.

    And when China providng such solutions at same price, why anyone on planet earth buy Indian solution which only capable to fire unguided and that too with limited features.
     
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  12. kaku
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    kaku Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    I post the various unguided and guided shells China producing later.
     
  13. kaku
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    kaku Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    [​IMG]

    About retirement of MiG-27. So enough time exist.
     
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  14. kaku
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    kaku Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]





    [​IMG]
     
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  15. MilSpec
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    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    I understand, as the army always says we will fight with what we have. But decommissioning close to 550 d30's, and all of the oto melera Mod 56 we had once without thinking of viable alternatives before decommissioning left a gaping hole in our fire power, now redirecting Fighters from air interdiction, forward support and CAP to cover CAS is terrible situation to be in when we are struggling in the air force with the sqdn strength.


    I am the last one to say so, it would be great if we could have all guided rounds, but a laser guided copperhead is extremely expensive, when we have bean counters unwilling to buy enough 5.56 round, forgive my skepticism about laser or gps guided rounds.

    Line of credit, common security goals, just like everwhere else other companies compete with norinco.


    I don't think it's at the same price, guided rounds will always be more expensive than un guided and base bleed rounds, other than that, Indian solutions like Dhanush Atags and even 105 mm are platforms, you can very well fire guided rounds from the same gun if you can develop a guided round. Like for example from a dhanush or atags or even the soltam M46 you can fire the copperhead round. the Length caliber 52/45/39 doesn't effect the round as long as breach block can accommodate the round. In other words I am not advocating offering purely unguided solutions for export.
     
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