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The Flying White Elephant

Discussion in 'The Americas' started by Picdelamirand-oil, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Captain Technical Analyst

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    There has been a LOT of manipulation in the testing/simulation of the F-35 but when it has the power of the US Military and Lockhead Martin behind it what do you expect?
     
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  2. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Prestigious fighter pilot critical of showdown between F-35 and A-10
    May 3, 20163:52pm








    • According to the fighter pilot, the two jets have too many vast differences to make for a reasonable comparison — the A-10 is a slow and sturdy twin engine, while the F-35 is a fast and flimsy single-engine plane.

      “When you try to have a comparative analysis of a single-mission platform like the A-10 against a platform like the F-35, which is fundamentally designed from the ground up to do something completely different,” he said.

      “What I would say is that it’s very important to compare apples to apples.”

      [​IMG]
      Critics of the F-35 are glad it will tested against the tried-and-true A-10.

      To emphasise his point, Lt. Wood referred back to a 2015 report detailing a mock dogfight between an F-35 and F-16.

      In the test, the nimble F-16 outperformed its sluggish, hi-tech opponent in offensive, defensive and neutral setups at altitudes ranging from 10,000 to 30,000 feet.


      While admitting the F-16 dominated in manoeuvring parameters of the test, Lt-Colonel Wood said it wasn’t an indication of failure for the F-35.

      “The F-35 was built with stealth to be able to go places that no one else can go and to be lethal without anyone seeing it,” he said.

      “Those are two very different design points. So, what if I draw a conclusion that the F-35 can be [outmanoeuvred] by the F-16 — therefore the F-16 is better?

      “Let’s throw in a couple enemy [surface-to-air missiles]. Then let’s see how the F-16 by itself does.”

      Lt-Colonel Wood said the findings of this test were prime example of why the two fighter jets should not be compared.

      “You can design tests if you have inside knowledge to showcase strengths and weaknesses and abuse them to your own bias if you wanted to do a disingenuous comparative analysis,” he said.





      experts warn fighters emerging in Russia and China are less sluggish, more nimble than the F-35.

      The poor response to the Joint Strike Fighters has led to many military experts in Australia calling for the planes to be scrapped entirely.

      Earlier this year, retired air force wing commander Chris Mills declared Australia should be opting for F-22 Raptors instead.

      “Air combat is the most important single capability for the defence of Australia, because control of the air over our territory and maritime approaches is critical to all other types of operation in the defence of Australia,” Mr Mills wrote in a submission to parliament.

      Lockheed Martin remains confident in its fighters saying teething problems were to be expected.

      “As a reminder, the F-35 program is still in its developmental phase,” a spokesman said.

      “This is the time when issues are expected to be discovered and solutions are implemented to maximise the F-35’s capability for the warfighter.”
     
  3. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    The Predator's Stealthy Successor Is Coming
    The Air Force wants a hyper-capable drone on the cheap. Is current technology up to the task?


    [​IMG]
    USAF
    Author Copy Created with Sketch.
    By David Hambling
    Dec 15, 2016


    • wants a new drone. It needs to do everything the current Predator can do but better, including staying airborne for seven days and using less ground support than its unmanned predecessor. To reach this high bar, the Air Force might consider a hybrid or solar-powered engine, an airship design, or other technology that might not yet exist. But the end product needs to cost only $1 million per aircraft.


      This new program is called the Ultra-Endurance Unmanned Air Vehicle, and program manager Marc Owens of the Air Force Research Laboratory's Center for Rapid Innovation tells Popular Mechanics that it will be ideally suited for gathering intelligence and will carry cameras and radar rather than bombs. At present, the Air Force can support only about 60 drone Combat Air Patrols (CAP) at one time, which is not many considering that a CAP may be focused on just one village or even devoted to following a single high-value individual. Cheap drones could boost numbers and be sent into situations too hazardous for a more costly aircraft.


      Here's Exactly Why Snow Tires Are So Much Better Than All-Seasons

      The new drone will need to be stealthier than the Predator and its lawnmower-like engine, and will have satellite communications with a payload at about half the Predator's. Although a smaller drone might make this new aircraft look like a pipsqueak in comparison, electronics have shrunk considerably since the Predator came into service back in 1994. It would be like comparing an iPhone 7 to an IBM Simon.

      "Technologically, a number of advancements could come into play to support the desired objective," says Owens, mentioning innovative aerodynamic designs, efficient propulsion systems, and solar power. "But we are 'agnostic' about technology." In other words, they're open to ideas. Although they'll consider several proposals from different companies, only one can join the Air Force's drone fleet. But this drone's cutting edge requirements could make it a huge challenge to build.

      [​IMG]Boeing Condor
      Flickr Craig Howell


      First is meeting that daunting seven-day flight quota. The Air Force's Predator can fly for a two-day stretch with the help of a frugal Rotax engine and glider-like wings. But that length can be easily passed using just 1980s technology.

      Boeing's prototype 1988 Condor drone, for example, had a 200-foot wingspan, slightly more than a 747 airliner. It was made of new lightweight composite materials, and tipped the scales at 20,300 pounds, less than one-thirteenth the weight of its 747. A pair of fuel-injected, 6-cylinder piston engines drove the Condor to speeds over 200 mph. It took off from a four-wheeled trolley and landed on skis to save weight and could last for 58 hours in the air — though designers say that number isn't even close to its limit as it could likely stay airborne for a week. Like the much smaller Predator, Condor was designed for surveillance but when Boeing finished the design in 1989, it was way too expensive.

      What if the winning design isn't a winged drone at all, but an airship? The Air Force doesn't have a great history with lighter-than-air dirigibles, as it's already canceled the $200 million Blue Devil drone blimp in 2012 (the Army also terminated their similar LEMV in 2013). Other airships, like DARPA's Walrus, have met similar fates. Any airship proposal for the Ultra-Endurance UAV would have to hold steady with high 50 mph winds. Airlander says its airships can survive up to 80 mph gales, but that claim has never been tested.

      [​IMG]LEMV concept design
      The Air Force's best bet is likely a hybrid engine combining solar power with fuel cells, an idea derived from a NASA study into long-endurance air vehicles. Airbus is working on the Zephyr, an ungainly solar craft with a 70-foot wingspan, which holds the record for the amount of hours airborne at 336 (about two whole weeks). But its 11-pound payload is only a fraction of what the Air Force needs.

      Maybe more advanced solar drones might to the job. Google's planned Solara 60 meets the USAF's payload target, but even its little brother, the Solara 50, will cost a cool $10 million, far beyond the $1 million target.

      But hope remains. Back in 2008, a similarly ambitious Air Force program aimed to provide Predator-type capability at a fraction of the cost. The horribly named "Low Cost Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance, Unmanned Aerial Vehicle" would carry a camera and a laser designator with day-long flight time at a bargain price of $50,000 compared to the Predator's $4 million.

      [​IMG]TigerShark XP
      NASC
      Navmar Applied Sciences Corporation met the challenge with advanced aerodynamics, composite materials, and off-the-shelf (and hence cheap) electronics. Its design became the RQ-23 TigerShark, which has seen service in Afghanistan hunting buried IEDs. So cost-cutting when it comes to making next-generation drones is possible.

      Owens says the prototype should start flying two years after the first contract is awarded. Transition to service depends on how well it works and whether the Air Force still needs it when it's finished. So this highly advanced drone could just become another forgotten project rotting in a hangar like the Condor and the LEMV—or it might blossom into an important element of the U.S. Air Force's drone fleet, giving an eyes-on view anywhere and everywhere in the world.
     
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  4. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    PART of Network centric warfare concept.

    With less than half of the ground forces and two-thirds of the military aircraft used 12 years ago in Desert Storm, we have achieved a far more difficult objective. … In Desert Storm, it usually took up to two days for target planners to get a photo of a target, confirm its coordinates, plan the mission, and deliver it to the bomber crew. Now we have near real-time imaging of targets with photos and coordinates transmitted by e-mail to aircraft already in flight. In Desert Storm, battalion, brigade, and division commanders had to rely on maps, grease pencils, and radio reports to track the movements of our forces. Today, our commanders have a real-time display of our armed forces on their computer screen."


    "Net-centric warfare's effectiveness has greatly improved in 12 years. Desert Storm forces, involving more than 500,000 troops, were supported with 100 Mbit/s of bandwidth. Today, OIF forces, with about 350,000 warfighters, had more than 3,000 Mbit/s of satellite bandwidth, which is 30 times more bandwidth for a force 45 percent smaller. U.S. troops essentially used the same weapon platforms used in Operation Desert Storm with significantly increased effectiveness."[6] In other words we can now accomplish what we accomplished in Desert Storm with about 1/3 the same force and much faster.
     
  5. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    At this time French Army had already computerised the situation awarness. I was working for them at this time.
     
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  6. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    http://www.scout.com/military/warrior/story/1682575-special-f-35-vs-china-j-31-russia-pak-fa?s=143

    Special Battle of Stealth Fighters: F-35 vs China J-31 & Russia PAK-FA

    [​IMG]
    Kris Osborn
    1:18 PM / Originally published onWarrior
    An F-35 fighter pilot says he would be confident flying the Joint Strike Fighter against any enemy in the world, including Russian and Chinese 5th Generation stealth fighters.

    An F-35 Joint Strike Fighter would be able to use its sensors, weapons and computer technology to destroy Russian and Chinese 5th-Generation Stealth fighters in a high-end combat fight, service officials said.

    “There is nothing that I have seen from maneuvering an F-35 in a tactical environment that leads me to assume that there is any other airplane I would rather be in. I feel completely comfortable and confident in taking that airplane into any combat environment,” Lt. Col. Matt Hayden, 56th Fighter Wing, Chief of Safety, Luke AFB, Arizona, told Scout Warrior in a special pilot interview.

    Furthermore, several F-35 pilots have been clear in their resolve that the multi-role fighter is able to outperform any other platform in existence.

    Hayden was clear to point out he has not, as of yet, flown simulated combat missions against the emerging Russian Sukhoi T-50 PAK FA 5th-Generation stealth fighter now in development or the Chinese Shenyang J-31 5th Generation Stealth aircraft. While he said he did not personally know all of the technologies and capabilities of these Russian and Chinese aircraft, he was unambiguous in his assertion regarding confidence in the F-35.


    [​IMG]

    Available information says the Russians have built at least 6 prototype T-50 PAK FAs for their Air Force and Navy; the Chinese conducted a maiden test flight of its J-31 in 2012. In addition, China is in pre-production with its J-20 5th-Generation stealth fighter. This fighter, called the Chengdu J-20, made its first flight in 2011, and is expected to be operational by 2018, according to publicly available information and various news reports.

    While Hayden did not elaborate on aspects of the J-20, he did say he would be confident flying the F-35 against any aircraft in the world.

    “All those other countries (Russia and China) are trying to develop airplanes that are technologically capable as well -- from an F-35 perspective. We are no less capable than any airplane and any fighters out there,” Hayden described.

    In addition to leveraging the best available technologies on a fighter jet, winning a dog-fight or combat engagement would depend just as much on the air-tactics and decisions made by a pilot, Hayden explained.

    “I have not flown against some of those aircraft. When you fight against an airplane, it depends upon the airspeed. If I maximize the effectiveness of an F-35, I can exploit the weaknesses of any other aircraft,” he said.

    Many analysts have made the assessment that the J-20 does appear to be closely modelled after the F-35.

    In fact, a Defense Science Board report, cited in a 2014 Congressional assessment of the Chinese military, (US-China Economic Security and Review Commission) makes reference to specific developmental information and specs of numerous U.S. weapons systems believed to be stolen by Chinese computer hackers; design specs and technologies for the F-35 were among those compromised by Chinese cyber-theft, according to the report.

    An AIN Online report from the Singapore Air Show in February of this year catalogues a number of J-20 features and technologies – including those believed to be quite similar to the F-35.
     
  7. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    There are already 6 J-20 in PLAAF...
     
  8. shaktimaan

    shaktimaan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    But they are not combat worthy ...most probably prototypes
     
  9. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    6 are inducted as operational. They recently heavily spanked J10 during red sword training (including an AWACS). 2 are staying as testbeds/agressors
     
  10. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Google reveals F-35 is dangerously over-exposed

    [​IMG]

    As can be seen in this photograph, the F-35 has no reflection. This is because it is a vampire.

    Internet giant Google revealed yesterday that the F-35 was dangerously over-exposed in terms of media coverage. A USAF spokesman commented “With over 200 articles a week published on the F-35 program, there is a very real danger that some of this rhetoric will bounce off the airframe rendering it dangerously visible to enemy radars”
    The F-35’s airframe, which is shaped to reduce visibility to auditors, is 60 per cent caviar, 15 per cent mink and 25 per cent cocaine. The aircraft is even more vulnerable from detection by obsolete search engines such as Ask.com, ChaCha and Boogami which operate on a different wavelength. A US Navy think tank has been studying the so-called ‘Swarm’ effect, whereby one reputable website produces a story on the JSF and thousands of reverse-engineered drone stories follow it. The think tank noted that many of these drones were poorly produced with little regard for production quality.

    [​IMG]
    Key to the F-35’s survival in combat is its defensive aids suite. This system is operated onboard the aircraft by a lady.

    The Gray Slag
    The aircraft is powered by the sunk cost fallacy and with a loaded weight of 50,000 lb it is considered too big to fail. While critics suggest a unit price upwards of $170 million, Lockheed Martin have pointed out that once you deduct the cost of the engine, materials and electronics in the jet this figure goes down. This figure can further be reduced by removing other numbers. Proponents of the F-35 are keen to point out that everything is fine and it is brilliant. Meanwhile, critics of the $500 trillion project are keen to point out that everything is fucked and it’s awful. Arthur Koala, head of Public Affairs for the American taxpayer is quoted in this article as saying “The first priority for any nation is defense, and we remain committed to the defense of Lockheed Martin.”


    [​IMG]
    A graph yesterday.

    Wonga.com, who are in charge of finalising contracts with export nations are confident in future sales. Their head of sales noted“The partner nations and export customers are of course free to walk away from the program, though they may find Hillary Clinton refusing to talk to them again. But if they are comfortable with a bad relationship with the world’s greatest super power they are free to leave…terms and conditions apply.”

    The Australian Minister of Defence, Senator the Honourable David Johnston, said he shared Canada’s blind faith in the dumpy fighter and would buy it however expensive, late or ineffective it was. British Secretary of State for Defence Richard ‘The Hamster’ Hammond has fought hard to ensure that Britain has the minimum amount of F-35s at the maximum price. He noted that “By making sure our biggest defence contractor is making tail-planes for a US design we have ensured that Britain will never again be able to make a front-line military aircraft by itself. Following the rather mental Nimrod MRA.4, this is considered a good idea” .

    [​IMG]
    Richard Hammond, providing the fantasy of having fun friends to bored men.

    Britain’s force of four F-35Bs will enter service in 2022 and will replace the Typhoon, A400M, Grob Tutor and take over the role of Joey in The Only Way is Essex.

    https://hushkit.net/2013/10/11/google-reveals-f-35-is-dangerously-over-exposed/
     
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  11. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    USA does not compare its air force to those that use fighter that 50 year old technology that cost 240 million each.
     
  12. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    For how long does USA will exist?
     
  13. Aero

    Aero FULL MEMBER

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    Not the reducing of parameters to fit F-35 .
    F-35 also has power to catch fire quickly, a lot of recently. :flame:
    http://www.defensenews.com/articles/f-35-chief-loose-bracket-sparked-f-35b-fire

    Only time will tell but this way future doesn't look very bright.
     
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  14. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    http://www.af.mil/Portals/1/images/airpower/GV_GR_GP_300DPI.pdf

    “A modern, autonomous, and thoroughly trained Air Force in being at all times will not alone be sufficient, but without it there can be no national security.” — General H. H. ‘Hap’ Arnold, USAAF
    “Air power is like poker. A second-best hand is like none at all — it will cost you dough and win you nothing.” — General George Kenney, Commander of Allied Air Forces in the Southwest Pacific, 1942-45.
    “In order to assure an adequate national defense, it is necessary — and sufficient — to be in a position in case of war to conquer the command of the air.” — General Giulio Douhet
    “The story of the United States Air Force is
    the story of the search for … innovation.” —Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen, USN
    “Not to have an adequate air force in the present state of the world is to compromise the foundations of national freedom and independence.” – Prime Minister Winston Churchill
    “Air power is indivisible. If you split it up into compartments, you merely pull it to pieces and destroy its greatest asset – its flexibility.” – Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery
    The most important thing is to have a flexible approach…The truth is no one knows exactly what air fighting will be like in the future. We can’t say anything will stay as it is, but we also can’t be certain the future will conform to particular theories, which so often, between
    the wars, have proved wrong. – Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF
    “The future of this country and the welfare of the free world depends upon our success in space.” – President Lyndon B. Johnson
    “Higher, ever higher.” – Last words of Peruvian aviator Georges Chavez, 1910
    “The next war may be fought by airplanes with no men in them at all…Take everything you’ve learned about aviation in war, throw it out of the window, and let’s go to work on tomorrow’s aviation.” – General H. H. ‘Hap’ Arnold, USAAF, VJ Day, 1945
     
  15. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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