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The Flying White Elephant

Discussion in 'The Americas' started by Picdelamirand-oil, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    in 1917, war was already win by GB + France
    You help to end it faster. Not more. But we will never thank you enough.
     
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  2. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Wasn't the impressiv US army that wanted to lease our Legion Etrangère in Vietnam war ? unfortunately we didn't want. You loose.
     
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  3. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    F-35, KF-X deals likely to get scrutiny

    Posted : 2017-07-24 16:01
    Updated : 2017-07-24 18:15

    [​IMG]
    The prosecution's investigation into Korea Aerospace Industries' corruption allegations in military aircraft development is expected to be expanded to other major projects conducted under the former Park Geun-hye government, including the purchase of Lockheed Martin F-35s and the KF-X program to develop indigenous fighter jets. Former National Security Office chief Kim Kwan-jin, left, Park's longtime friend Choi Soon-sil, center, and Park herself have been mentioned as key figures involved. / Graphic by Cho Sang-won

    By Jun Ji-hye

    State prosecutors are investigating former Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) President and CEO Ha Sung-yong and former Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) chief Chang Myoung-jin over allegations of corruption and dereliction of duty, respectively, in a set of major defense projects.

    But not many people seem to believe that the ongoing investigation would be summed up as an investigation into simple corruption and graft cases involving the two figures appointed by former President Park Geun-hye, who was removed from office in March over a massive corruption scandal.

    Rather, it is widely seen as the beginning of an investigation into controversial defense projects pushed for by the Park government, including a 7.3 trillion won ($6.48 billion) F-X project and an 8.5 trillion won KF-X project.

    In March 2014, under the F-X project, the nation decided to buy 40 F-35 stealth fighters from Lockheed Martin as the Republic of Korea Air Force's next-generation fighters. Meanwhile, the KF-X project is designed to develop 4.5-generation indigenous fighters by 2026 to replace the Air Force's aging fleet of F-4s and F-5s.

    Those who have been mentioned as key figures in the projects included Kim Kwan-jin, former National Security Office (NSO) chief, Choi Soon-sil, Park's longtime friend who was at the center of the political scandal and subsequently arrested, and Park herself.

    The investigation into the former KAI and DAPA heads has begun under the leadership of Seoul Central District Prosecutors' Office chief Yoon Seok-youl, who was appointed by President Moon Jae-in in May.

    Ha is suspected of pocketing billions of won in illicit gains, while the nation's sole aircraft maker inflated expenses for developing military aircraft, including the Surion utility helicopters and T-50 jet trainers. Chang is suspected of neglecting his duty of supervising KAI, as his administration allowed the firm to resume delivery of the Surion choppers despite a series of defects, including engine problems.

    Yoon was one of the main prosecutors for the independent counsel's investigation into the scandal involving the former president. Earlier, Yoon was demoted by the Park administration for conducting the stern investigation into allegations that the National Intelligence Service intervened in the 2012 presidential election to help Park win the presidential election over then-opposition candidate Moon.

    Yoon's appointment apparently reflected the Moon government's willingness to eradicate corruption and push for reform.

    The expectation for the investigation to expand to larger projects and higher-level figures was fueled by the sheer number _ more than 100 _ of prosecution personnel who have been mobilized for the ongoing probe.

    The F-X project was one of the most controversial defense projects pushed for by the Park administration. The Defense Acquisition Program Executive Committee's 2014 decision to choose Lockheed Martin F-35 fighters provoked controversy, as the DAPA initially recommended Boeing's F15-SE as the nation's next generation fighters.

    At the time, former NSO chief Kim Kwan-jin served as defense minister and the head of the committee. While making such a controversial decision, Kim told his aides, "We need to make a political decision," according to Rep. An Min-suk of the ruling Democratic Party of Korea (DPK).

    Critics construed Kim's mention of "a political decision" as pressure from the former president.

    The decision later caused more enormous controversy, as it was belatedly known that the nation failed to receive four core F-35-related technologies from Lockheed Martin, which are necessary to carry out the KF-X project to develop indigenous fighters.

    The nation originally planned to receive technologies related to active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, infrared search and track (IRST), electronic optics targeting pod (EOTGP) and RF jammer from the U.S. defense giant in return for the purchase of the F-35s. But the plan floundered after the U.S. government did not allow the firm to transfer the technologies for security reasons.

    Following that hitch, the DAPA said it would develop such technologies domestically, but since then, questions have been consistently raised over why the committee rejected the F-15SE, even though Boeing was more positive in handing over core technologies.

    Adding to the controversy was the alleged intervention of Park's friend Choi in the decision-making in the F-X project.

    Rep. An alleged late last year that Choi may have illicitly helped Lockheed Martin receive business favors from the Park government and received a commission in return.

    The U.S. defense corporation denied this allegation at the time, saying it has never received business favors from the Park government with the help of Choi.

    An also identified Linda Kim as a key person who could lead to the truth behind the allegations. Kim was an influential arms lobbyist until the early 2000s and may have been friends with Choi.

    On July 18, Rep. Hong Ihk-pyo of the DPK said, "There have been a number of suspicions over the Park government's decision to change the model for the nation's next generation fighters from Boeing's F-15SE to Lockheed Martin's F-35. Thorough investigations are surely necessary." He also stated that the KF-X project should be examined again.
     
  4. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Dassault is well knowen to pay bribes, not Lockheed Martin. Its hard for Indias to understand the fear of major USA corporations to get involved in the USA legal system, was discussing that very subject with a retired VP of LM couple weeks ago.
     
  5. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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  6. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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  7. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    TOP GUNS
    Revealed, the awesome firepower of Donald Trump’s £77m F-35A stealth fighter jets that are ready to strike fear into Putin from British airbase


    The supersonic warplanes landed in the UK over the weekend in a bid to bolster Nato forces

    By Danny Collins
    19th April 2017, 1:00 pm
    Updated: 19th April 2017, 4:14 pm


    24
    Comments
    THE world’s most advanced fighter jet has shown off its moves in a hair-raising display after touching down in sleepy Suffolk.

    Fifth-generation US warplane the F-35A has been snapped taking to the skies above East Anglia after landing at the weekend.

    [​IMG]

    SWNS:South West News Service
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    The fearsome F-35A has been pictured at RAF Lakenheath after they arrived in the UK at the weekend
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    SWNS:South West News Service
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    The project to build the F-35A is projected to have cost the US more than £1trillion
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    SWNS:South West News Service
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    The jets flew across the Atlantic before touching down at Suffolk’s RAF Lakenheath
    [​IMG]

    SWNS:South West News Service
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    The futuristic jets have been pictured in their hangar at the base
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    SWNS:South West News Service
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    They will be based in the UK permanently from 2021
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    SWNS:South West News Service
    16
    One of the supersonic jets was pictured taking off into the Suffolk sky


    [​IMG]

    SWNS:South West News Service
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    The ultra-modern warplane showed off its moves in the skies above sleepy Suffolk
    [​IMG]

    SWNS:South West News Service
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    The jets have been sent to the UK by Donald Trump in a bid to bolster Nato's forces
    [​IMG]

    SWNS:South West News Service
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    Two squadrons of the jet will be permanently based in the UK from 2021
    [​IMG]

    SWNS:South West News Service
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    The jets can reach speeds of up to 1,200mph at full tilt
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    SWNS:South West News Service
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    The US is paying more than £1trillion to develop the jet - nicknamed Lightning
     
  8. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    At this point am sure the F35 is going to be fine, expect some day their will be dozens of allies flying the F35, will allow the USA to rule the sky for the next generation or two Thank God we are not in the mess India is in.
     
  9. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    GBU-53/B (Small Diameter Bomb II)
    Type
    Bomb
    Place of origin United States
    Service history
    In service
    2017 (planned)[1]
    Used by United States
    Production history
    Manufacturer
    Raytheon
    Unit cost US$128,771[2](FY15)
    US$227,146 inc R&D (FY15)[2]
    Produced January 2014–present[3]
    No. built 17,143 planned[2]
    Specifications ([1])
    Weight
    204 lb (93 kg)
    Length 69 in (176 cm)
    Diameter 6–7 in (15–18 cm)
    Warhead 105 lb (48 kg)[4]
    Operational
    range

    69 miles (110 km),[5] 45 miles (72 km) against moving targets[6]
    Guidance
    system

    Millimeter wave Active radar homing / Semi-active laser guidance / Infrared homing (using an uncooled imaging infrared camera) / GPS coupled Inertial guidance / Data Link More firepower.
     
  10. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    How we can solve the F-35 JSF disaster


    [​IMG]
    The drama-plagued F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. Photo: Supplied
    The horror of the Joint Strike Fighter (F-35) disaster looks like it is going to be uncovered in the UK rather than Australia. But, as the facts become known in Britain, even the most dimwitted of Australian politicians will understand that we have a deep problem.

    However, the British Joint Strike Fighter crisis is actually worse than Australia.

    Nevertheless, like Australia the British Parliament has been grossly misled about the costs involved.

    The British politicians have been told that each Joint Strike Fighter will cost between £77 million and £100 million. Thanks to research work by Deborah Haynes, the defence editor of The Times, the British learned that the cost of the aircraft was actually more than £150 million.

    Naturally, all the usual suspects said the journalist was wrong. But the British National Audit Office has had a good look at the real JSF costs. They estimate that by March 2021, the UK will have outlaid £5.8 billion on 21 JSF aircraft — a total of £276 million per aircraft.

    But then there are extras which take the total cost to £7 billion for the 21 JSF or a total cost per aircraft of £333 million — that’s more than $US400 million and about twice The Times’ estimate, which did not include all the ancillary requirements.

    And of course the British National Audit Office calculations made complete rubbish of the official statements to the British Parliament. Like the British parliament, the Australian parliament has also been misled with ridiculously low estimates that don’t cover the total costs.

    Even if you take out the necessary add ons, the UK audit office estimate of $US300 million per aircraft is more than three times what the Australian parliament thinks it is paying. Indeed, Defence Industry Minister Christopher Pyne said last month the per plane price had dropped to below $US100 million. While it’s true that the British version of the JSF is more costly than the Australian version, the difference is relatively minor.

    Deborah Haynes listed a series of things that were wrong with the JSF as applied to Britain and that was reported in The Australian on July 20.

    But for the poor British, the JSF morass is even worse than The Times outlined. The British are buying the F-35B or the aircraft carrier version called ‘the STOVL’ (short takeoff and vertical landing). But it now looks as though the STOVL version of the JSF has a flying distance range that is substantially below what is required to be a serious aircraft carrier weapon. So not only are the British going to pay an enormous price for the JSF, but they have also outlaid a huge amount for an aircraft carrier that can only be used for the JSF. It is a double blow.

    To top it off, the British have been studying the video of the JSF at the Paris Air Show. Because the aircraft was flying at very high levels, those on the ground couldn’t really follow what was going on. But the videos showed that the JSF was really struggling despite some excellent flying by its test pilot. And just to rub the salt deep into the British wounds Moscow has had its own air show and showed off its new Sukhoi Su-35 aircraft which performed with unbelievable brilliance. There was no comparison. And, of course we all know, the Indonesians are going to buy the Russian Sukhoi Su-35 aircraft.

    Here in Australia, like the British, politicians of both sides of politics have peddled the false cost estimates in parliament, despite being warned time and time again that they were being misled.

    The independent Australian defence analytical group that has done most of the detailed work on the JSF is Airpower Australia. As I have readily admitted, I am no expert on jet fighter aircraft. So I rely on Airpower Australia, which has been unerringly accurate in this area over the past decade. They simply have done the sums that were not done in the defence department. And their solution is that the only way out of this mess is to bring together the JSF and the brilliant aircraft the F-22, which the US has stopped producing.


    The JSF has some magnificent software. And if the two programs were brought together we could have an aircraft able to match the Russians and Chinese.

    If Britain and Australia came together there is a good chance that they could convince the Americans to go down this track. Because like the major Australian and US banks, the JSF program is now too big to fail. No matter what its deficiencies and costs, everyone is locked in to this total disaster. But the merger with the F-22 gives us a chance not to abandon the JSF program but to enhance it. And readers will know over the past decade I have always hoped that both Airpower Australia and I were wrong about the JSF. The British audit costs and the Paris and Moscow Air Shows have proved Airpower Australia right.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...d/news-story/47af6eba78aaf08bce66bdcdf2eef133
     
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  11. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    F-35, Court Count Conti: "Costs doubled, but we can not retire"

    Accounting magistrates on the super-hunt program: already 5 years late, but the amount of funds committed forces us to continue the project

    [​IMG]

    ROMA - The F-35 program has accumulated a "minimum five-year delay on the original gear chart" with costs "almost doubled compared to the initial forecasts".This is highlighted by the Court of Auditors in the Special Report on the Italian Participation in the Joint Strike Fighter F-35 Lightning II program, but notes that "the overall assessment of the project must take into account, precisely in economic terms, the fact that exposure Here realized in terms of financial resources (3.5 billion euros until the end of 2016 and more than 600 million further planned in 2017), instrumental and human is basically tied to the continuation of the project . "

    Dossier F-35

    The estimated economic volume for the next two decades, even in its most optimistic vision, is considerable (about $ 14 billion) and the multiplier effect on the induction should not be underestimated. The United States, the accounting judiciary said, "reduced the number of aircraft ordered in the initial stages by nearly 50%. The full rate production phase , initially scheduled for 2016, has been gradually postponed, and is currently being Expected from production lot 15 (2021-2022), with a delay of at least 5 years. "

    "Unit costs - the Court of Auditors notes - have almost doubled, and only in recent years have seen signs of improvement in terms of increased production efficiency and the supply chain by sub-suppliers." "In 2001, the average cost of acquisition was estimated at $ 69 million, today it is € 130.6 million," the report says. "However, there is a downward trend (-4.67%) in comparison with similar estimates of 2012, which reported an average acquisition cost of $ 137 million, which is linked to the higher degree of maturity and therefore efficiency of production processes.

    According to the information provided by the US Gao Independent Bureau at the International Conference on Oslo and the Gao-16-390 report, "some technical risks, although significantly reduced in 2016, remain open."

    The Court of Auditors also warned that "the option to resize national participation in the program, although not subject to Which in itself leads to contractual penalties, potentially poses a number of adverse effects "in economic and employment terms.

    Meanwhile, the United States and some of the partner countries have It rethinked its participation in the program in the sense of reducing or slowing down the acquisition profile. For Italy, two decisions have taken place: the first in 2012, which reduced from 131 to 90 the number of aircraft to be acquired; The second in 2016 has pledged government to join the parliamentary guidelines to halve the F-35's budget, originally expected at $ 18.3 billion (under economic conditions in 2008).

    The first decision had a cost to the industrial base: the loss in percentage of the opportunity to build aerial pallets at Cameri, which assumed the volume of purchases over the number of 100 aircraft. The second has only produced a slowdown in the acquisition profile until 2021, with a temporary savings of 1.2 billionOf the euro in the five-year period 2015-2019, but without any long-term savings.The overall slowdown in the program - the Court of Auditors report says - avoided that this decision, taken at national level, was traumatic. "

    http://www.repubblica.it/economia/2...addoppiati_ma_non_possiamo_uscire_-172579007/
     
  12. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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  13. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    It cost so much that it's unlikely you will see dozen of allies flying together.
    Your main ally (vassal?), UK, stand for the moment to 21 plane if I remember well. Dozen you say?
     
  14. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    There wont be a plane built for the nest 30 years that can compete with the F35 and other plane built is 30 years behind.
     
  15. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Maybe it will be operationnal in 30 years.
     
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