Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

The Flying White MMRCA Deal

Discussion in 'The Americas' started by BMD, Jan 26, 2016.

  1. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    10,774
    Likes Received:
    5,742
    How much do you think debt servicing it? How much debt do you think the central govt actually holds?

    Find answers for that and you will see the entire defence budget is covered using hard cash.

    Stage-1 will see induction next year. It is only as good as the F-35 but with some drawbacks like using F-35 class radar, avionics etc, but slightly better like the side arrays. The only advantage being an all band active cancellation system. It will soon be ready. But RuAF have decided to limit production and wait for Stage-2.

    Stage-2 is the relevant next gen platform. It will have next gen engine with adaptive engine tech, photonics radar etc. IAF and RuAF are waiting for this aircraft.

    Are you talking about yourself?

    Rafale has sensor fusion, Typhoon doesn't. So any claim of it having active cancellation is limited at best. Even under active cancellation there are various forms of it, like partial, complete, strengthening etc. That's why when Picdel claimed Rafale has had active cancellation since a long time, I countered saying that it should be an early form with limited capability, like number of targets, older hardware etc. The fully capable AC system shouldn't be ready for deployment until 2018 with F3R and he agreed.

    Maybe Typhoon has AC, maybe no, there is no official news regarding that. But Rafale does, and has official backing. What's more is Rafale has superior sensor fusion, so its ability to maintain stealth is superior to other aircraft.
     
  2. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    8,120
    Likes Received:
    5,913
    Country Flag:
    France
    It is not helpful to discuss with BMD. BMD created its own Universe, in which the "active cancellation" is either completely impossible, or possible and performed by everyone. But in his Universe, it is completely impossible that something be done only by the French, except to surrender.
     
    randomradio likes this.
  3. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    15,346
    Likes Received:
    2,380
    Country Flag:
    United States
    France should be used to surrendering by now.
     
    BMD likes this.
  4. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,127
    Likes Received:
    2,923
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    66% debt at the sort of interest rates a bank will give you on a BBB- rating is a heck of a lot, especially when they view that lending money to your currency has a natural loss because of exchange rates. You've been debunked by two people on this.

    So when someone else says 2025 you ignore that too. If it is coming next year, then the Rafale is a waste of time.

    Typhoon is stated to have sensor fusion and what's more it all comes to the pilot via HMD.

    The Typhoons jammers are housed in two massive wing pods, so that seems like it should be plenty of active cancellation, especially when you add a 50% larger AESA radar, which will get GaN 4 years before the Rafale does.

    Active cancellation is just a form of DRFM jamming, take a wave and invert it. Eurofighter GmbH never considered it special enough to even mention. It's kind of like this really. In Britain a snail is a random gastropod that nobody considers worthy of food, go to France and they'll serve you it in a restaurant and charge you a fortune for it. Same deal with pigeons and frogs. These people have turd polishing down to a fine art.
     
  5. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Messages:
    13,479
    Likes Received:
    14,901
    Country Flag:
    India
    @BMD, Pls accept my views. You have no clue of the way we in India finance our needs. Do you know that Indian economy has highest rate of deposits in the world?
     
  6. Tejpal

    Tejpal Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    189
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    Rolled over by the Prussians/Germans FOUR times within the space of 150 years for heaven's sake...FOUR bloody times.

    Napoleonic War, Franco-Prussian War, World War 1 and World War 2...Jesus. I'd cry if I were French.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
    BMD likes this.
  7. Tejpal

    Tejpal Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    189
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    What's India's gold reserves like? I don't know a great deal about it but what I do know is that (a) your average Indian, even those who are relatively poor, have A LOT of Gold and (b) the Hindu temples must be flowing with Gold.
     
  8. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,127
    Likes Received:
    2,923
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    That's completely irrelevant, I know that with a 66% debt to GDP ration, a BBB- credit rating and a currency that sinks relative to the dollar, you are likely paying more than use relative to GDP and revenue. So the tax returns you think are being spent on the military are actually making debt repayments, either that or you borrow more money just to pay the debt, which is functionally the same thing. One way or another you're borrowing to enable spending.
     
  9. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Messages:
    13,479
    Likes Received:
    14,901
    Country Flag:
    India
    I heard that Queen of England was about to commit suicide when she came to know that one single Temple in Kerala had over $20b in gold in its vaults. She shamed british armed forces for not having looted that gold. ROFL & its really truly untrue.
     
  10. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,127
    Likes Received:
    2,923
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    If only they'd back down from debates as fast. Maybe that's why they keep getting a kicking, they never shut up until someone invades them and then they surrender immediately.
     
  11. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,127
    Likes Received:
    2,923
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    I think the Queen and the City of London are rich enough, especially if some conspiracy theories have any merit. Hell the City of London isn't even technically part of the UK, or not fully anyway. It's not part of any voting constituency. When you think how much money and territory the Royal family controlled in the 19th century, simply investing that money via central banks would... well... pretty much end you up owning just about everything.

    It's not like central banks even get audited and nobody knows who owns them, and it isn't the government. As someone once said, the Federal Reserve Bank is like Celebrity Big Brother, it has 3 words and none of them are correct. It's neither federal, nor a reserve, nor a bank.
     
  12. Tejpal

    Tejpal Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    189
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    $22 billion...Allah.

    "Up to 1 trillion dollars worth of Gold held in temples across India"...that has to be over estimated, no?

    "Jewelry consistently accounts for over two-thirds of annual gold demand. India is the largest consumer in volume terms, accounting for 27% of demand in 2009, followed by China and the USA."
     
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    10,774
    Likes Received:
    5,742
    Lol. So Britain lives on debt, is it? Unfortunately for you, we don't.

    In India, according to RBI, bonds are desired only on productive ventures. If something makes no profits in order to pay off the interest, then no loan is taken. Is military expenditure productive? No. So no bonds on weapons. Commonsense.

    It's hilarious how you get trumped on even the most simplest things when commonsense is more than enough to counter it.

    We aren't interested in PAK FA Stage 1.

    That's not sensor fusion.

    You need active cancellation systems closer to the fuselage in order to reduce interference. Most of the reflections come from the fuselage, followed by the wings, so what's the point in sticking the active cancellation system in the wings? It's basic physics.

    If you want active cancellation in the frontal hemisphere, then you will need the emitters close to the source of reflections. Rafale's is right next to the cockpit, on the canards, in front of the weapons. The F-35 manages that through the radar, that's right in front, which is actually the best place.

    Lol.
     
  14. BMD

    BMD Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    10,127
    Likes Received:
    2,923
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    With a weak currency, a BBB- credit rating and 66% debt relative to GDP, I bet your repayments are larger than ours relative to GDP. The UK has 89% debt but is AAA on most credit ratings and has a strong currency, so it doesn't get charged much interest because foreign investors make their money simple by owning pounds, even without the interest. 1.5% vs 8% on the interest. But no, you're not paying much LOL.

    List of countries by credit rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    United Kingdom Government Bond 10Y | 1980-2016 | Data | Chart | Calendar

    India Government Bond 10Y | 1994-2016 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast

    Your PAK-FA waffling is hilarious too.

    What's the point in having active cancellation on the sides of the intakes? It seems the positioning doesn't matter too much according to the SME, "Rafale is not special." Besides the Captor-E will sit in the centre and it can also reduce RCS by not being fixed vertical like the RBE2-AA. Too me the Typhoon jammers look a lot bigger and beefier too.
     
  15. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    10,774
    Likes Received:
    5,742
    Even monkeys know what PAK FA Stage 1 is. Heard of the 117?

    The first static test model was delivered only a few months ago. The first prototype of Stage 2 is yet to take flight.

    If the Captor-E is available sometime in 2023 with EA, then it should be able to do active cancellation. But until then Rafale is way ahead.

    And you don't get it. Any aircraft can do what the Rafale can do as long as the funds are available. It's not alien tech. The only difference is the Rafale is many years ahead and has plenty of funds.

    Rafale already has AESA. By the time Typhoon gets AESA, Rafale would have GaN on the AESA. By the time Typhoon gets GaN, Rafale would have conformal arrays. By the time Typhoon gets conformal arrays, if it ever does, Dassault would have a new Super Rafale in production. So Rafale is perpetually ahead.

    Similar story when it comes to sensor fusion. By the time Typhoon gets true sensor fusion, the Rafale would be integrating Aewcs and other aircraft data into its information system, not just the 4 ship fusion that it has today.
     

Share This Page