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The Indian Navy's helicopter plans and purchases

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by Agent_47, Nov 30, 2016.

  1. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Panther is for NUH tender bro! I dare say Airbus are in pole position for both tenders but also have the feeling the Bell 429 will snatch the NUH deal...
     
  2. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Worth noting that PBLs are now being "baked into" every major deal from the outset- this will make flyaway costs almost impossible to ascertain from an external perspective but shows a new kind of thinking from the MoD/Indian military.
     
  3. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Would not get this one. STRATEGY PAGE

    August 23, 2017: On August 11th Airbus Helicopters advised operators of their Tiger gunships that all of them were potentially unsafe and should be grounded until it can be determined exactly what caused the July 26 crash of a German Tiger helicopter gunship in northern Mali. The Tiger went down during a surveillance mission and the two crew (pilot and weapons officer) were killed. Eyewitnesses and examination of the wreckage indicated the cause was mechanical failure because one of the rotors came off in flight causing the helicopter to go down.

    The Tiger has had problems like this in the past and was also considered excessively time-consuming and costly to maintain in a combat zone. In Mali peacekeepers prefer AH-64s but appreciate whatever they can get. In early 2017 Germany agreed to send four Tiger helicopter gunships and four NH90 transport helicopters to Mali to replace the four AH-64 helicopter gunships and three CH-47 transport helicopters the Dutch sent in late 2014 to provide fire support, transportation and medical evacuation for the 5,000 peacekeepers then in northern Mali. Now there are twice as many peacekeepers and while they preferred the larger AH-64a and CH-47s they appreciated the smaller Tiger gunships and smaller helicopter transports which were better than nothing. The Dutch helicopters were durable but not indestructible and the Dutch pointed out in early 2016 that their seven helicopters has suffered a lot of wear and tear and need extensive refurbishment that could not be carried out in Mali. The UN has been trying to get some other Western nation to step forward with replacements since then and Germany was finally persuaded to step in.

    A major reason American military helicopters, mainly the AH-64 gunship and transports like the UH-60 and CH-47 are so popular is because they have high readiness rates (percentage of available aircraft able to do their job). These tend to be very high, often 80 percent or more. This has been the case for over fifty years, even for older (in terms of years and flight hours) aircraft. This has proved to be decisive in keeping these older designs selling.

    Europe sought to build competitive military helicopters but were never able to match American readiness rates. This is surprising, because European commercial aircraft (AirBus) can do it. But the Tiger helicopter gunship and NH90 transport, meant to compete with the AH-64 gunship and UH-60 have failed. The Tiger entered service in 2003 and the NH90 in 2007 and their low availability rates eventually became a public scandal (embarrassing debate in the French parliament) when it was revealed the Tiger had a 21 percent readiness rate (5.5 year average) and the NH90 had a readiness rate of 40 percent. This came despite years of efforts by the users and manufacturers to raise that rate. The users, who frequently operate from bases shared with American (or European) troops using AH-64s and UH-60s note the differences and are unhappy, as are the troops they support. Those European troops, when given a choice, prefer to be supported by American helicopters. Users of the Tiger and NH90 blame most of the problems on their logistical systems, which take far longer to deliver spare parts than their American counterparts. But even when that is not a problem the European helicopters have a hard time achieving and sustaining readiness rates of 50-60 percent.
     
  4. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Screenshot_2017-08-23-23-19-29-673_com.adobe.reader.png Complete tender
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    Continued...
     

    Attached Files:

  5. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Continue..
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    randomradio likes this.
  6. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    I was listing probable winners on both categories. Bell 429 is just 3 tons !
     
  7. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  8. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Problems with these helicopters are partnerships. NH90 and Tiger are both product of it.
     
  9. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    One primary advantage of American products is the much larger MIC backing it so ample spares and logistics create a much higher availability rate beyond the general higher quality of American helicopters.

    Just started to get caught up on this topic, GOI and MOD should really understand that a decisive quick decision have their advantages. Boeing was unusually accommodating of India's delays in negotiation. Most companies won't be like that.

    It's like buying a car, yeah waiting for the absolute lowest price is good, meanwhile your broken down car requires costly repairs and is gas inefficient.

    Anyways, my prediction is chinooks, apaches and s-70b's all sweep their fields. I would not be surprised if V-22's are acquired as well, nothing can touch the Osprey in terms of unique ability.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
  10. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  11. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Complete tender document for NUH
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  12. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Tender document for NUH continue...
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  13. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  14. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    For NMRH , there will be a tug of war between Sikorsky S-70B and Airbus H225M
    For NUH , Airbus panther leading.

    Overall, to increase the maintainability, IN would go for a single OEM for both NMRH & NUH. that means AIRBUS has upper hand on overall tender.

    But the main part in both NUH & NMRH is ToT , it will be main hurdle for short timeline procurement.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  15. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    European troops, when given a choice, prefer to be supported by American helicopters. Users of the Tiger and NH90 blame most of the problems on their logistical systems, which take far longer to deliver spare parts than their American counterparts. But even when that is not a problem the European helicopters have a hard time achieving and sustaining readiness rates of 50-60 percent.
     

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