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The Kashmir Conflict

Discussion in 'Internal Affairs' started by desiman, Jun 23, 2010.

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Which solution woud you like ?

Poll closed Apr 24, 2017.
  1. Solution 1

    45.4%
  2. Solution 2

    4.1%
  3. Solution 3

    43.3%
  4. Solution 4

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Solution 5

    1.0%
  6. Solution 6

    5.2%
  7. Solution 7

    1.0%
  1. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer VETERAN MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Is this your contribution to the discussion? Fascinating.
    1. Accession to the Dominion of India or to the Dominion of Pakistan was obligatory for the princely states. They did not have the choice of independence, as some of the Princes were bluntly told when they enquired. One of the conditions of accession was contiguity. That is why the accession of Junagadh to Pakistan was not recognised; that is also why the possibility of J&K acceding to Pakistan was a real possibility. As was the possible accession of Jodhpur. The accession was promptly denounced by Mountbatten, on the grounds of contiguity, which he had explained to the princes well in advance. The Nawab made his get-away, his Dewan held the fort, until two subsidiary states of Junagadh exercised their right of independent decision regarding accession, and acceded to India. Troops were then sent into these two subsidiary states of Junagadh. The Dewan handed over the administration to the nearest Indian administrative officer and decamped. That is why the Instrument of Accession of Junagadh to Pakistan was not accepted.
    2. There was no Instrument of Accession for Baluchistan. Since the Princes did not have the right to declare independence, the Khan of Kalat was being contumacious, and he was punished by not being consulted when the tribes were asked to decide on their own, without their Sardars. For your information, there is no Instrument of Accession for Hyderabad either.
    3. It is mysterious how many constitutional and legal experts are lurking around this forum. The Instruments of Accession were not nullified by the promulgation of the Constitution of India converting the Dominion of India to the Republic of India on 26th January 1950. The states acceding to the Union of India, the Dominion, were dealt with in specific clauses of the Constitution. Their rulers were dealt with through the mechanism of Privy Purses, taking the place of their revenues from their states.
    What else would you like to know?
     
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  2. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer VETERAN MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Very astute analysis. Congratulations.
     
  3. kaku

    kaku Major Technical Analyst

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    We are properly talking legality, will you show me any article in Indian Independence Act that talk about contiguity.

    If so how Indian Independence Act allowed East Pakistan?
     
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  4. kaku

    kaku Major Technical Analyst

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    You should, indeed.
     
  5. kaku

    kaku Major Technical Analyst

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    Really, and maybe Instrument of Accesion were drived from Privy purse right, and not Indian Independencd Act 1947?

    Atleast read the Art 395 before commenting any more BS.
     
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  6. kaku

    kaku Major Technical Analyst

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    I do it for you.

    https://indiankanoon.org/doc/493040/
     
  7. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer VETERAN MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    More expertise. Ah well.

    The Instrument of Accession was obviously not derived from the Privy Purses; one was a document designed for the accession of the princely states to the Union of India, at that time the British Crown Colony of India, the other was a measure of compensation to the Princes for their loss of state revenue. The idea started with the Round Table Conference, the form used was one attached to the Government of India Act 1935. While the matter was mentioned in the Indian Independence Act, there was no specific reference format; the 1935 attachment was used instead. It was still hoped that the Princes would not hold out but would join the Union of India, but that never happened, and Patel and Menon had to do that work all over after 1947.

    The Instrument of Accession was not, repeat not, derived from the Indian Independence Act. The option of accession was offered in that act, but with the possibility of an independent existence. The denial of an independent existence was communicated to the Princes by the Viceroy verbally.

    Article 395 abrogates the interim constitution, the Government of India Act 1935, under which the administration continued until the Indian Constitution was promulgated. It also abrogates the Indian Independence Act 1947, as the constitution and organisation of the Union of India was substantially changed with the combination of the princely states with the Union, a situation that had been made possible by the Indian Independence Act, but one that the Act did not particularly provide for.

    So what is the point you are trying so desperately to make?
     
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  8. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer VETERAN MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Yes. You did it for me. You've done a great job, and tomorrow, the Gazette will acknowledge the rise of a new constitutional authority. Now go to sleep.
     
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  9. kaku

    kaku Major Technical Analyst

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    So you are right while Law Ministry site is wrong, read the point no 6.
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. kaku

    kaku Major Technical Analyst

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    Sorry I was wrong about Indian Independence Act 1947, that was part of Govt, of India Act 1935.
     
  11. Vyom

    Vyom Captain GEO STRATEGIC ANALYST

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    Why this smug sense of authority where you tell me what to do? Who are you? Some thought police?

    Let me try your Line : Now that you have told me what to do... Chest-beat like gorilla to establish your authority on this planet. Jump like a baboon and sit in your chair.
    (Did I do it right? was I smug enough ?)

    It breaks my heart. That you couldn't resist to throw labels again. I never called you anything :meeting:

    I am being called all sorts of names for disagreeing to your point of view, makes me wonder what Orwellian utopian state a liberal dreams of where anyone disagreeing to a self proclaimed "liberal" would ensue Kafkaesque treatment. While simply pointing out that what happened in J&K was an administrative necessity, any nation wouldn't pussy foot its reaction when sovereignty is challenged, I am subjected to name calling of the most disgusting kind, isn't that the exact opposite of what liberalism means ? or you disagree with me and are going to label me a Zionist this time ? (that's one label left.)

    You are only extrapolating points and saying things about yourself that I never said, and hyperventilating in contempt (in contempt of what exactly ? Are you the keeper of some sacrosanct ideology that Your Idea/opinion is the absolute truth written on stone that no one can dare to challenge/disagreee, that flow of thought is not exactly "liberal", you know ... ), why this hyperbole of inflated interpretation about me and your own self ?

    1. I did not state that Constitution of India has no such provisions. If I have, point it out. I stand by the Constitution and the Republic of India. Why pull off a starw-man logical fallacy to derail the point of discussion.

    2. You are not with the state, and not against it, but you are against the Republic of India establishing it's suzerainty over its sovereign territory, by constitutional means that the republic is empowered to take. No one in the Valley, acting on behalf of the Indian Republic during those days or even today, was/is an extra Constitutional authority or appointee. What on earth are you against, if not these ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
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  12. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer VETERAN MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    upload_2017-4-20_11-59-58.jpeg
     
  13. Vyom

    Vyom Captain GEO STRATEGIC ANALYST

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    What an expert comment. Hope, that helps you find meaning in your usual banal existence.
     
  14. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer VETERAN MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Baffled.

    What is the point you sought to make in post 474? How is it relevant to anything? This is the original plan for enfolding the princely states into the Crown Colony, BEFORE INDEPENDENCE, which never took place. The form of Instrument of Accession used by V. P. Menon when he worked with Sardar Patel was an annexure to this enactment.

    I am sorry, but this is too subtle for me. What is the point that is being sought to be made?
     
  15. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer VETERAN MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    An expert refusal to comment, not an expert comment. It is interesting to read posts that are right; it is boring to read posts that are almost right.
     

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