Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

THE TRAGEDY OF TEJAS

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by OverLoad, Apr 1, 2017.

  1. David1107

    David1107 IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2017
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    5
    Country Flag:
    China
    非常正确,属于中国和印度的时代会到来的
    It is true that the era of China and India will come
    双方的冲突是不可避免的,但中国有句话叫做“求同存异”,只要能管控好分歧,双方的合作是有很大前景的。
    The conflict between the two sides is inevitable, but there is a saying in China that "seek common ground while reserving differences", as long as they can control the differences, the cooperation between the two sides is very promising.
    合作赚钱永远都比战斗更划算,中国也不想和印度发生战争或者其他冲突,在存在争议的边境地区,中国也只部署了很少的军队,就是在淡化冲突。
    Cooperation to make money is always better than the battle, China does not want to have a war with India or other conflicts, in the disputed border areas, China has deployed only a small number of troops, is to dilute the conflict.
     
  2. Veeran

    Veeran BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Messages:
    456
    Likes Received:
    316
    Country Flag:
    India
    Chinese have made their intention clear through their actions in Kashmir by creating Aksai Chin, invading Tibet, assistance to a rouge suicidal nation like pakistan in nuclear weapons, blocking India in NSG, blocking Mazood Azar being termed terrorist in UN, dumping cheap products through blackmail into India, simultaneously blocking Indian products, alliance with Pakistan, etc etc... The list is so big.

    So we don't care to hear the sugar coated words.
    We have learned from our mistakes.
    Now it is your turn to be on the receiving end.
    And we have not even started.
     
    kaku likes this.
  3. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    1,601
    Country Flag:
    India
    Welcome to the Forum... Looking forward to more of your post here!
     
    An Indian and Sancho like this.
  4. An Indian

    An Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    195
    Country Flag:
    India
    Very briefly - we are based on the westminister model. Since I don't have a legal background, I can't give more details but it makes sense to take a system that was working and build on it - which is what we did.
     
  5. An Indian

    An Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    195
    Country Flag:
    India
    We do not believe conflict is inevitable. It is inevitable if the relationship HAS to be one of Dominance and submission or if the pie is seen as limited. We believe in a relationship of equality and mutual-respect and see the pie unlimited.

    BUT, are wary (because of the past) and will keep our powder dry.

    Indeed. We would rather be wary than sorry. This much I can say - we will not be the attackers...
     
  6. An Indian

    An Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    195
    Country Flag:
    India
    Personally - I would be wary and watch for the long term intent. If the intent is clean, I would be supportive and be friends. Thing is various individuals may have different intents and I would rather start by giving benefit of doubt.
     
  7. Guynextdoor

    Guynextdoor Lt. Colonel SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2010
    Messages:
    4,855
    Likes Received:
    1,740
    But china did steal American tech through espionage. I didn't say that judgmentally. Countries do use espionage to get the technology of others.
     
  8. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    15,357
    Likes Received:
    2,376
    Country Flag:
    United States

    What does that mean.
    So we don't care to hear the sugar coated words.
    We have learned from our mistakes.
    Now it is your turn to be on the receiving end.
    And we have not even started.
     
  9. arbit

    arbit 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2016
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    208
    Country Flag:
    India
    Tell that to Xi, he is partnering with pakistan and planning on retiring the entire civilised world.

    Also don't eye our lands.
     
  10. Veeran

    Veeran BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Messages:
    456
    Likes Received:
    316
    Country Flag:
    India
    What individuals think in a top-down dictatorship think is irrelevant. The countries foreign policy is now based on their opinions or thoughts.
    So how does that count??
     
  11. An Indian

    An Indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    195
    Country Flag:
    India
    Talking about leadership - Fair!!! But in the end a society/country consists of people, of individuals. If there are enough individuals who understand the implications of what their leadership is doing then there is a CHANCE of influencing them - the key words here are "enough individuals" and "chance". I am willing to start with one and explain our perspectives in a honest and mutually respectful way - who knows where this might go.

    Finally, when the chips are down. We are an inclusive race and have the ability to integrate diverse perspectives, find solutions that very few others have been able to find. This is a capability that very few societies have. And it is from this perspective I'm willing to listen, to talk.

    The other perspective also - I know I speak from a position of strength. I know the strength of my country and am not worried about being cowed down or something like that. Shooting him down, going to battle is easy. It is more difficult to make friends from a position of equality, explain and hold my perspectives while trying to understand his. IMHO it is worth taking the tougher route.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
    Boomslang likes this.
  12. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    653
    Likes Received:
    352
    Country Flag:
    Canada
    India and China can never be friends.

    Simple geopolitics reasoning. #1 and #2 are never friends.
     
  13. Boomslang

    Boomslang IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    3
    Country Flag:
    United States
    You, sir, are limited of intelligence and like the rest of your country think that if something is American Russian or European it is the best there is. Besides, do you think The USA built the 'teen' series of Aircraft in two days? check the F-16/FA-18 build history and answer the question. Maybe the LCA is a hybrid of a thousand imported parts, it is Indian and Indians will zero down and replace those parts at sometime or the other without the induction of said aircraft there will be no need to do so and India will lag behind in those areas forever. and By the way does the F22/35 have FOC? What?? never thought of looking that up eh? an how about the Grippen E or NG? or the Typhoon NG? no? take a look Indian patriotic Dude. I wonder why Indian as well as Pakistanis want so much to fly imported aircrafts against each other.. By now Pakistan should be phasing out its' F-16 even if it is block 52 (That's old! old! we don't fly it anymore)
     
  14. Boomslang

    Boomslang IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    3
    Country Flag:
    United States
    absolutely my Chinese Friend, For India which has never even manufactured the canopy of a 4+ gen aircraft ever before, manufacturing even the airframe only will be a great experience. For the future . Something that the Indians themselves don't understand... The engind for the LCA is currently an American one I think the GE 404 is ist not? to be replaced by the GE414 ehich is currently the power plant on the FA-18 super Hornets..
     
  15. Boomslang

    Boomslang IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    3
    Country Flag:
    United States
    Has India really learnt anything at all dude? China and USA both have one thing in common quick central decision making India Dithers. I was reading a book called "the Himalayan Blunder" more like skimming it really which talks of India's war with China like a hundred years ago in 1962 Goes something like army dude to Mr. Nehru (prime minister) he PM dude, the Chinese have attacked.. PM: Nah! must be someone else, I just had a long, happy chat with their Mao dude a coupla days ago.. seemed happy and all Hindi Chini brothers and all, did say something about some place called "Arunachal Pradesh" I told him to lay off, one hast to be strong with the Chinese y'know.. but that was it I think and he seemed happy enough to just lay off it.. Must be someone else. Pakistani sneaked across and pretending to be Chinese I am sure.. But PM dude, They are Chinese, Let me call the General, Nehru: General? what General ? the dude who wants to take over the country? Nah, leave him outta this, do we have anybody to hold those aggressors back? Is there some other way of telling who they might be and what they might want Without Alerting the General and giving him a reason to mobilize the Army and then be in a good position to replace me? Meanwhile the Chinese come in kick Indian arse then go back and start saying Hindi Chini brothers for the next hundred years till today.. and what does India do? Dither and Dither. China meanwhile takes major posture in the sea of China, Pratley Islands almost a few hundred klicks from Indian territory, builds bases for itself and a port in Pakistan, scares maritime traffic to Sri Lanka instead of Indian posts, ever so often walks over the LAC(? ) like it does not exist for a picnic in Indian territory , even moves major equipment and helicopters etc. and all India does? squeak a bit in UN, start a very pretentious relationship with the USA a relationship that will benefit us a hundred times more than India. Feels good about it and goes back to its' soporific state. Happy that USA, Russia and Europe will build its' armaments and supply them on time reliably. Not even enough armament at that. I thought this Modi dude who is the Indian PM has some brass balls and will take India's defense and posture in the world seriously even thought he was actually not corruptible. But what is the difference between Modi of 2017 and Nehru of 1962? Both are embellishing their worth to the Indians and both are building things that will not help India immediately.. Instead of building bullet trains and Metro Rail to win elections Modi dude oughta be building Aircraft carriers and Battle tank, get some kinda edge over China then rest and build India all he wants. Like China did and is doing, moving away from any parity that India might conceive even in the Oceans where India was supposed and di hold some parity with China. And the dude is corrupt which seems to be traditional for Indian PMs and their ballsfree Defense and Foreign minsters even that Doval dud the NSA advisor, They sold India's cryogenic engine dream to the Russian thugs no other country has screwed with India's self sufficiency in defense (and other places too , by selling India communism (Marxist Leninist) screwing with miners stopping industrial production whenever they thought they needed more Indian money along with China's influence in West Bengal (CPI) and Kerala too. The Marxist Naxalites still roam Indian countryside killing and looting. Even I, an avid follower of aerospace trends thought that India had the necessary tech to manufacture Mig -21s but they don't have the tech to manufacture an elevator forget about the engine and avionics!! Russia kept India in the industrial dark ages while China flourished. Even later the Indians thought they are so advanced because they could write a few bad lines of code Yes bad. Have you seen Indian code? Indian codes have the worst User Interface. Their output is formatted like their mother tongue which is different for different coders. In the USA they become lingual groups, shunning everyone from their language based/regional cliques. Whether American or Indian. This has been a problem with the Pakistanis too. What the subcontinent needs to develop is the "Raj" look at Pakistan: it goes back in time whenever there's an elected Government. True it has had one or two bad governing Generals but whatever it has attained by way of national pride it has done so under Generals. If there were a General in command during the so called "Kargil" war, it would have attained its' objectives. I am sorry I know this is touchy for Indians but do try to evaluate what the situation might have been if Pakistan were not dithering under a PM and had a general in command of the nation? a full scale would have resulted with Clinton telling his slaves in India to cease and desist and at the same time serving a token threat to Pakistan so that the Indian s would "oh look!! the yanks love us" result? ceasefire with Kargil in Pakistani hands as advertised by Musharraf . I think there is a long learning curve to democracy. You just ant have democracy work for you if you are not inherently a decisive and patriotic nation. and proud of your nation. That is another problem is it not? Does India have the balls to stand up to Lockheed and say screw your ancient hardware dudes offer us the F-35 and then we will talk... Nope, why not? why does the US deem India fit only for its' bi-planes? and India would take it too at the loss of whatever perceived crap IT has designed. Way to go dudes, screw your self defense for obscure diplomacy. For Financially there's nothing to gain. American are hard nosed businessmen if they are anything and would not offer India or Pakistan a shoe if there were 25cents worth of wear left in it and they could take it. Why don't the Indian and Pakistanis understand that? On the other hand Russia is beginning to take Pakistani money. If the Indians know what is good for them they will not complain, they will shut up and even encourage the Russians! Yeah! go for it dudes and after you made their govt. buy Su-35 and screw up their J-whatever (I am sorry I forget) manufacture they can sell em another model of the great Sukhoi family aircraft to replace their Su-35s which they had a lot of fun selling parts to and even let Pakistan pretend that They we" manufacturing" a 4++ gen aircraft. and they will screw with the AL-Khalid, letting Pakistan "manufacture" a new gun, armor and god know what else like they did to the Arjun. And all the while Graft! Graft! Graft! It is a wonder why neither India nor Pakistan can stand up and say "back off" to superpower meddling.. Oh! Like the ancient Indians of 1962, Pakistan is being done by a country that can really steal its' soul and everything else and later the Russians will join in to ensure that Pakistan never recovers from Stone age. Dudes Just wait and watch the rise of the Communist party in Pakistan, an avowed Capitalist country thru the cold war and all that an American ally. Within the next decade even before that blessed pipeline starts pushing gas or whatever it is supposed to, the Pakistani religion will have suffered a defeat at the hands of 'revitalizing' communism nd it will have its own beloved leader. All Pakistan needs do is take a look at the geopolitical map of the countries attached to the Chinese border as Pakistan is right now.. Only India remains firmly non-communist and the group of countries attached to India because India acts a buffer and yes, has been protecting even Pakistan from going red , Not the USA or anyone else, India because the logistics of doing a Vietnam or Korea on Pakistan was too much even for China. Though they planned good and are now sitting on Aksai Chin and have a smooth corridor to Northern Pakistan. I have always wondered that why has China not gone democratic yet. The answer is that China will not go democratic till it has achieved its' territorial goals of converting or acquiring territories it thinks is necessary for its' comfort. How can the Pakistani think tank be comfortable with their country being tunneled by the Chinese? the Chinese are past masters at tunneling Think Vietnam. Think guerillas roaming, defeating the standing Pakistani army. If Pakistan goes red, India is screwed even the Russians will not help and the Americans will surely pull back and consolidate. No nukes will be used at all. what for? by whom? Maybe India and laugh at this if you will, to help Pakistan probably by dropping em in the Aksai Chin and maybe
    China-Pakistan Friendship Tunnels? what is going to happen to the European countries once the Silk Route is all done? For the first time the Communist party of China will have a clear access to Europe. Things will be hot but India and Pakistan will cease to exist? unless Indians stop dithering and take action while they can , stand up to the Chinese and the US and make itself stronger. Manufacture your own ruddy plane, gain the experience make your weapons. India has the brain power and the industrial base to do it. They should. Pakistan should design it own core technology if manufacturing a whole system is too costly. And all the time look for tunnels and police their land with aggression. Oh yes the reason I started writing this in the first place, Idia has been trying to develop a cryogenic engine for sometime now. I believe they were able to develop one for their GSLV III satellite that is great news it ill enable better space mission and even have great strategic benefit. But this has come so late thanks to Russian meddling. Just the kind of meddling that Pakistan needs to look out for. Where and when and on what will China meddle who knows, they have certainly taken over the fighter manufacture. What next. Thanks a lot if you have read this far. I certainly let it all out. China needs to be praised for what they are doing to Russia. They are clever and hard working dudes and if the out Russia (which got a lot of its' weapon designs from the West anyway) Russia then more power to them. Thanks. Ps. After all that I feel like adding this song from Bob Dylan:
    "Talkin' John Birch Paranoid Blues "

    Well, I was feelin’ sad and feelin’ blue
    I didn’t know what in the world I wus gonna do
    Them Communists they wus comin’ around
    They wus in the air
    They wus on the ground
    They wouldn’t gimme no peace . . .

    So I run down most hurriedly
    And joined up with the John Birch Society
    I got me a secret membership card
    And started off a-walkin’ down the road
    Yee-hoo, I’m a real John Bircher now!
    Look out you Commies!

    Now we all agree with Hitler’s views
    Although he killed six million Jews
    It don’t matter too much that he was a Fascist
    At least you can’t say he was a Communist!
    That’s to say like if you got a cold you take a shot of malaria

    Well, I wus lookin’ everywhere for them gol-darned Reds
    I got up in the mornin’ ’n’ looked under my bed
    Looked in the sink, behind the door
    Looked in the glove compartment of my car
    Couldn’t find ’em . . .

    I wus lookin’ high an’ low for them Reds everywhere
    I wus lookin’ in the sink an’ underneath the chair
    I looked way up my chimney hole
    I even looked deep down inside my toilet bowl
    They got away . . .

    Well, I wus sittin’ home alone an’ started to sweat
    Figured they wus in my T.V. set
    Peeked behind the picture frame
    Talkin’ John Birch Paranoid Blues
    WRITTEN BY: BOB DYLAN
    Well, I was feelin’ sad and feelin’ blue
    I didn’t know what in the world I wus gonna do
    Them Communists they wus comin’ around
    They wus in the air
    They wus on the ground
    They wouldn’t gimme no peace . . .

    So I run down most hurriedly
    And joined up with the John Birch Society
    I got me a secret membership card
    And started off a-walkin’ down the road
    Yee-hoo, I’m a real John Bircher now!
    Look out you Commies!

    Now we all agree with Hitler’s views
    Although he killed six million Jews
    It don’t matter too much that he was a Fascist
    At least you can’t say he was a Communist!
    That’s to say like if you got a cold you take a shot of malaria

    Well, I wus lookin’ everywhere for them gol-darned Reds
    I got up in the mornin’ ’n’ looked under my bed
    Looked in the sink, behind the door
    Looked in the glove compartment of my car
    Couldn’t find ’em . . .

    I wus lookin’ high an’ low for them Reds everywhere
    I wus lookin’ in the sink an’ underneath the chair
    I looked way up my chimney hole
    I even looked deep down inside my toilet bowl
    They got away . . .

    Well, I wus sittin’ home alone an’ started to sweat
    Figured they wus in my T.V. set
    Peeked behind the picture frame
    Got a shock from my feet, hittin’ right up in the brain
    Them Reds caused it!
    I know they did . . . them hard-core ones

    Well, I quit my job so I could work all alone
    Then I changed my name to Sherlock Holmes
    Followed some clues from my detective bag
    And discovered they wus red stripes on the American flag!
    That ol’ Betsy Ross . . .

    Well, I investigated all the books in the library
    Ninety percent of ’em gotta be burned away
    I investigated all the people that I knowed
    Ninety-eight percent of them gotta go
    The other two percent are fellow Birchers . . . just like me

    Now Eisenhower, he’s a Russian spy
    Lincoln, Jefferson and that Roosevelt guy
    To my knowledge there’s just one man
    That’s really a true American: George Lincoln Rockwell
    I know for a fact he hates Commies cus he picketed the movie Exodus

    Well, I fin’ly started thinkin’ straight
    When I run outa things to investigate
    Couldn’t imagine doin’ anything else
    So now I’m sittin’ home investigatin’ myself!
    Hope I don’t find out anything . . . hmm, great God!
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
    zebra7 and Dagger like this.

Share This Page