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The truth of the "Land Acquisition Bill"

Discussion in 'National Politics' started by Marqueur, Apr 24, 2015.

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  1. rcscwc

    rcscwc Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Btw, there has been no opinion poll about it. One was conducted by NitiCentral and not much opposition was found.
     
  2. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    BTW there was one by CSDS

    dont know it niticentral conducted a fresh poll or they quoted this CSDS one

    the poll says 76% of the farmers are willing to give up thier land

    my only Q is

    the govt requires 70% landholders consensus / approval for Govt PPP projects

    & 80% consensus for pvt ptojects

    so my only Q is

    if the poll is true & correct and if 76% of the farmers ar eready to sell thier land

    where is the problem

    the govt requires 70% and 76% farmers are ready / willing

    for pvt projects 80% is required and 76% are ready the pvt party/ govt needs to just convince 4% more

    so wher eis the problem in the consensus clause ?

    give me some convincing answers
     
  3. rcscwc

    rcscwc Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Last edited: Apr 30, 2015
  4. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    The data regarding 58% population contributing only 14% of GDP was made on the floor of LS by Rajnath Singh.
    Regarding my so called Ghatiya soch, what I stated about outsiders in Delhi was also stated by Shiela Dixit in 2012 and ask anyone in Delhi police to know the truth. By suppressing the truth, you can't hide it. It surfaces always.
    regarding what I stated about farmers, You must realize that my own family had Farming as only family biz till the generation of my Grandfather. I have seen everything by own eyes whatever I wrote here. Once again bcoz this truth is too damn stark for you so you call my thinking Ghatiya.
    As a simple proposition what wud you prefer to do if you have to invest Rs200 to earn Rs 150? Will you be able to sustain it?
    GOI and also BJP knows that it costs Rs 1950/quintal to produce wheat and yet the MSP is only 1450. Why?
    Bcoz GOI pays a large amount of subsidy in the form of cheap urea, seeds, electricity and after that it also pays compensation for crop looss & suicides and also waiver of bank loans of farmers. The number of farmers actually owning farming land has dropped since independence as more and more of them have either turned farm labour or have become rikshapullers in big cities. The rich farmers exploit all the benefits meant for farmers. The CAG report on farm loan waiver scheme of 2008 had many surprises. Most of the loans which were waived off were those which were taken by farmers for purchase of cars and such luxuries and that too by well to do farmers who had been paying the loan EMI regularly and did not need such a waiver.
    This shows that so called poor farmers are actually farm labourers and deserve jobs under MNREGA rather than sops at the expense of honest hardworking tax payers. Pls do a study and you will find that nearly every farmer who committed suicide was actually a person who was a farm labourer and had taken land on lease for farming. They did not own the land in nearly 90% cases. Those who did own the land had a marginal land holding of just about one acre.
     
  5. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    @Paliwal Warrior, you shud have read the last part of my post#9 more carefully and you wud have realized what I wanted to convey. Pls read the last few lines again and you will know what exactly is needed to uplift this poor section of our society. I hope you know that in the name of job under MNREGA people have only been digging holes and covering them. Old Soviet Union had such farms where people worked and were taken care of by the state. I am not preaching communism here but we have reached a state of affairs wherein we must consolidate the marginalized farmers and their land holdings into large farms and create either some kind of cooperative or govt funded farming system to help them. Paying subsidy and compensation or rewarding suicides is not the way forward.
     
  6. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    what i mean is saying they account for 14% OF GDP does not mean we forcibly take away the land which is owned by them in the first place

    regarding subsidy

    ther is subsidy on urea not seeds, agro cehmicals
    the subsidy on urea has done distortions in the market like shortage of urea & black marketing of ureas upto rs 150 blacm on a bag of urea of 50Kg farmers bstill buy it
    if govt increases prices by rs 75 / bag of urea and ensures adequate supply the farmers will pay it anyways they are paying on average 100rs extra to balc mareters they will pay 75/ bag extra to govt will reduce subsidy

    today the govt has increased the import duty on sugar imports to 40%
    what is this isnt this an indirect subsidy to sugar industry ?
    there is export incentive on beef & sugar - what is this isnt it subsidy by other name - incentives ?
    HMmm

    you are ok with subsidy to industry but when it comes to providing subsidy to common people & farmers people like you baulk /

    why ?

    why this doubel standards ?

    there is no govt subsidy on seeds or agro chemicals & agri implements
    one packet of mirchi seeds of 400 gms costs rs 3500-4000
    go check it out
    check out the seeds prices for all vegetables & grains

    do some research then talk


    Farm loans

    the isudtries that you so fondly speak of
    4.85 lac crores are pending in taxes
    1 lac crores are wilful defualters in banks
    3 lac crores + corporate loans are restructured
    the corporates & SMEs are the biggest generaotrs of balcm money in indai - care to disagree or debate this ?

    does the farmers - this 58% - account for 8.85 lac crores fiscal porblems of india ?

    govts & people like you have no issues in restructuring more than 3 lac crores in debt of croporates but baulk at 50K crores of farm loan restructing ocassionaly at 3-4 years interval - can you justify this ?

    why dont we have same set of rules for all ?

    when you say the 14% figure was given by govt in LS it is correct i am disputing that figure

    what i am saying is that this 58% are also consumers they consume toothpaste soaps tv refrigerators LED TVs 2 wheelers and that out of the 62% servies & 26% mfg sectors combined the 45-50% of those sales are consumed by these 58%

    which means that 50% of these (62+26)=88% are consumed by these 58%

    which means that these 58% also consume drive and account for 50% of these 88% i.e. 44% of mfg & services

    got it ?

    regarding crime & your ghaitya soch

    back it up with official data not staatements and feelings
     
  7. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    my point is

    offer them / show them alternatives

    but leve it to them to choose

    dont force land acquisition on them

    let them choose what they want to do
     
  8. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    also one more thing

    see the development of pune bangalore etc any cities from top 200 cities in india over last 20 years

    even without the LAB or LARR these cities have groen expanded in geography

    so how did the pvt industries , propoerty developers got those land to develop?

    if land acquisition was not possible how did this happen

    can anyone give real & convincing answeer ?

    farmers have sold thier land & will sell thier land

    AT RIGHT PRICE , AT RIGHT COST BENEFIT EQUATION

    we dont need compulsory laews for that

    it has been happening & will happen on cemmercialy sound & beneficail basis
     
  9. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Niticentral survey probelms

    does not state when it was conducteed
    what was the profile of participants -were they farmers - or people who wil potentially loose livelihod or land ?
    only 3-4 questions and it becomes detailed ?


    pl find the links here

    75% farmers want to quit, says CSDS, Lokniti survey | Business Standard News

    http://www.lokniti.org/pdf/Farmers_Report_Final.pdf
     
  10. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    This is the biggest problem with you. You will twist things and also not read the posts properly. I never supported corporates, I supported ordinary tax payer and I am against all kinds of subsidy except for subsidy in food, health and education. This has been my position always and I have never changed my stand on this. I know what the problem is and I am offering a solution by propagating cooperative farming as a substitute to marginalized land holdings by using funds under MNREGA. Did I in any of my post suggest forcible land acquisition? what is a cooperative? do you know what all benefits GOI provides to such cooperatives in villages? Pls check how the lives of people have been transformed by taking the cooperative route? The land owners will retain their land and will pool in their land only for the purpose of farming and share the income from it based on the share of land in the cooperative. The farmers who chose to work on these fields will be paid wages as per MNREGA from the earnings of the farm produce. So everyone will benefit from such an arrangement.
    Regarding subsidy for seeds, you need to recheck your data. There is subsidy even for purchasing tractors, water pumps, farm equipment etc.
     
  11. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    there is no subsidy on seeds tractors

    water pumps there is no blanket subsidy

    subsidy is given in different forms like

    if there is no electricity lines lines running within certian km of your farm and it dosnt have an power connections
    govt provides 50% of capital subsidy for solar power operated pumps

    then in farm equipments there is targeted subsidy like for drip irrigation systems - so that water consumption & dependency on rain water is reduced also it reduces the power consumption for pumping out water from borewells or wells

    there is capital subsidy in setting up green houses

    but for implemets of routine nature used in farming there is no subsidy
     
  12. rcscwc

    rcscwc Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    ... And there is a periodical waiver of loans and power bill etc.
     
  13. abhitej

    abhitej Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    [/QUOTE]
    Nobody can give guarantee about any job.

    6000 sq kms is 600,000 hectares. One hectare will cost 1 crore. Who has 600,000 crores to acquire 6000 sq kms land. Land will only be acquired near major cities/towns around railway track. India has land area of 3 million sq kms. 1% of this is 30,000 sq kms. If we set up industries & new towns on these 30,000 sq kms land we will go ahead of China.

    Agriculture in India is done on 1.5 million sq kms of land. Acquiring 30,000 sq kms does not make any difference. It is just 2% of agriculture land. People talk as if land of all farmers will be acquired.

    Average farmers earn 5 lakhs at most from 1 hectare of land. If you put 1 crore that you get from selling 1 hectare land in fixed deposit, you earn 8 lakhs every year without doing any work.

    Lastly land belongs to country not individuals. Individuals only have rights to use land as per purpose of land. Land cannot be considered as personal property like a car that owner has absolute ownership. Government can take land without consent for using it for development of country after giving compensation. If any body thinks that he is owner of land why does he pay land revenue to government. Does a farmer owning agriculture land has right to build a housing society & sell. He only has right to use the land for agriculture purpose.
     
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  14. abhitej

    abhitej Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    The problem is not that market price cannot be paid to farmers but problem is in getting required quantity of land.

    Lets say I need 1000 hectares of continuous land for building an air port. If I pay more than market value, I will get 80 % of land. But 20% will say they will not sell or demand exorbitant price. Now what is happening is that these 20% are telling the rest 80% not to sell land and bargain for higher price. This way no land can be acquired.

    For Navi Mumbai airport government has acquired more than 90% of land. The rest are asking for 200 crores per acre to sell land. Project is stuck because of this. Problem in land acquisition are not poor farmers but rich landowners who are not dependent on agriculture and milk the issue to get maximum money.
     
  15. abhitej

    abhitej Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Yes these cities have grown but look at their condition. Everything is chaotic. We need planned cities. For that we need land acquisition in large quantity & then comprehensive planning for whole city.
     
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