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Timeline Russia: News, Updates & Opinions

Discussion in 'Europe & Russia' started by brahmos_ii, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. Pundrick

    Pundrick 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    The whole crisis in the middle-east is Sunni vs Shia battle, and all the Sunni majority country are seen as the supporters of the ISIS and other Sunni led groups and the Shia group is led by Iran and Co. I thought you knew about it, at least that is what we have been listening to from last 2-3 years. And in Indian media there isn't much USA or Russian influence seen so most of the time the news report regarding ISIS and Syria is very accurate.

    And even Turkey is accused of supporting ISIS by buying oil and other commodities from them, see whether you give them gun or money by doing business you'll be seen as a sponsors of terrorism in the world community, and in past few months these activities has affected image of Turkey as secular nation. And the naive foreign policy of Erdogan has also added fuel to this cause.
     
  2. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    I hope normalcy returns. I am sorry, i am not aware of the political situation in Turkey. Please elaborate the situation of the leadership for our readers.

    regards.
    milspec.
     
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  3. cloud4000

    cloud4000 FULL MEMBER

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    I'm sure the assassin of the Russian Ambassador felt the same way. Clearly has clearly taken a side in Syria: they have joined Shia Iran to back Assad to the hilt, trying to keep him power by any means necessary. That Russia is directly involved in military attacks on anti-Assad rebels has clearly upset a lot of Sunnis the world over. Killing a Russian Ambassador is only the beginning, expect more attacks in the future.
     
  4. venureddy

    venureddy Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    really!!! you do not know that nations like saudi arabia supports terrorists??? why don't they accept some refugees from syria???? after all they have one of the largest camps for pilgrims lying empty in their country. and i am including a link below if you so happens to be unaware of that camp and how huge it is.
    http://speisa.com/modules/articles/...s-giant-saudi-arabian-tent-camp-is-empty.html
     
  5. venureddy

    venureddy Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    i thought that you know about these deals!!!!!
    i thought you are aware of turkish blackmail of europe to send in more immigrants of turks do not get EU membership and Visa free travel!!!
    too bad you are not aware of the matters concerning your own country.:dude:
     
  6. venureddy

    venureddy Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    who is to blame for that refugee crisis???? i don't think its Russia or assad for that matter. it is the western and arabs creation called ISIS that has slaughtered millions and committed many atrocities and sold Oil to Turkey(which they willingly bought). last time i heard that Turkish military is shooting kurds who are fighting against ISIS(i wonder why!!).
     
  7. T-123456

    T-123456 2nd Lieutant THINKER

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    The Iraq crisis was an American project initiated by Bush,he attacked Saddam Huseyin defeated him and installed a Shia-only government which excluded the Sunni population.
    The Sunnis of Iraq had not other choice but to abide by the rules set by the Shia government and live like second grade citizens or fight for equal rights through an insurgency.
    The question we could ask is why did the US do this,didnt it want peace in Iraq,equal rights for all,live in peace together,wouldnt that be the solution to the Iraq problem?
    Apparently not,this leads to the conclusion that the US wanted Iraq to stay in turmoil.
    Btw,there was no ISIS then,only Sunni insurgency lead by defected Sunni generals.
    Yes we were and are accused of so many things,

    ''CIA apologizes to Turkey over ISIL oil trade allegations''
    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ci...ions.aspx?PageID=238&NID=107404&NewsCatID=358

    http://geopoliticsalert.com/cia-apologizes-turkey-accusing-buying-isis-oil
    http://www.worldbulletin.net/world/181872/cia-apologizes-to-turkey-over-isil-oil-links

    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...o-turkey-over-false-claims-of-links-to-daesh/

    I added the other sources to verify the authenticity
    The situation is clear,Erdogan dictates and the people follow,do as he says.
    The 15 years of AKP(Erdogans party) leadership have lead the country from the western oriented secular democracy with a bright economic future to a country in turmoil surrounded by enemies.
    Im no economist but even i can see that an economy existing on foreign loans is doomed to fail,unemployment is at 11,3(not since the nineties).
    We had the best relations with Israel(helped us during the many weapon embargos against my country),they gave us Abdullah Ocalan(PKK terrorist head) on a plate(Mosad catched him for us),many Israëli tourists came to my country every year,they trained together with the Turkish Air Force in Turkiye,they stood by us.
    What happened,he chose the fvcking Hamas over Israel,un fvcking real.
    The guy was anti Israel from the beginning(2000)
    He sent the IHH(terrorist supporters,Muslim Brotherhood) with a flottila to Gaza which caused the death of 10 of these terrorists and the end to the good relations we had.
    He had good relations with Assad,they were BFFs but his greed caused that relationship to end.
    The GCC countries together with the US(then pro GCC) wanted a pipeline to Turkiye and Assad was ok with it but changed his mind because Iran came with a better offer,a pipeline from Iran to Syria and the Mediterranian.
    So,Assad had to go,but how?
    Anti Assad demonstrations,people got killed,FSA formed,barrelbombs,chemical attacks etc.
    Then why didnt Obama hold on to his ''red lines'' and end Assad just like he did with Gaddafi and Morsi,it wouldnt take that much effort or time,there was an insurgency,so why not?
    Because if he did,there would never have been an ISIS,there was no ISIS then.
    Well he changed sides because the Arabs were getting to cocky and he had seen that there is no hope for these hidden Islamists(the leadership) because for the ruling Arab families of the GCC,the dumber the people the more the slave mentality so,Sharia Law suits them just fine.
    Thats why many Arab states like Morocco,Algeria,Tunisia,Lebanon are not seen as Arabs(to free,to much education) by the GCC leadership.
    Egypt is easy,the dictator can be bought.
    Back to Erdogan,since the US made deals with Iran,his safe-zone wish was no more,what could he do,he could have gone for it alone(best option) an nobody would have dared to counter,Assad would be defeated and a democratic leadership would have replace him,aligned to Erdogan.
    Why didnt he?
    Because he has no balls(he was afraid to fail) and he had jailed/replaced all the Kemalist generals(hardcore NATO generals,real Turks) of the Armed forces with his stooges(Islamist,no experience.no guts).
    He fvcked up bigtime,either stay out or have the balls to finish what you have started
    Erdogan came up with the ''acilim''(reconciliation) policy in 2001 when the PKK was almost finished(300 to 500 fighters left),90% the Kurdish population had nothing to do with the PKK(marxists fascists) but this idiot gave the PKK a podium,how can a Turkish leader do that?
    Well he wanted votes,he needed the Kurdish votes.
    The system in my country is that there is a treshold of 10%,under that you get nothing and all those votes go to the biggest party(AKP),if the Kurds have a party(HDP),they will get 10% because of the ''peace proses'' with the PKK,many parties will lose votes(Kurdish) and wont make the treshold of 10% so,all of their votes go to the AKP.
    All these attacks against my country made Erdogans position only stronger,''we will finish them bla bla bla''',people believe and still trust him,unbelievable.
    To much to write,if you have any questions,just ask and ill answer.
    Officially,its not the Saudi government that supports the terrorists but ''some elements''.
    They dont accept refugees because these refugees have a disease called democracy,what will happen if lets say 500k Syrians stay in the KSA for a decade?
    That 500k will become at least 5 million(the way they breed) and they will want democratic rule which will cause trouble for the leaership in the KSA,think about it.
    Im sure you understand now why i asked those questions.
    That blackmail you talk about started as a deal proposed by the EU,''take back the refugees and we will give you Visa free travel to the EU''.
    The so called ''blackmail'' came after the EU not keeping its promises.
    The only one to blame for the refugee crisis is Obama(red lines),go tell him.
    Those Kurds from the YPG(Syrian PKK) are fighting my country,they are our enemies,they want to create ''Greater Kurdistan'' from Turkish/Syrian/Iraqi territories.
    We will never allow that to happen.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2016
  8. T-123456

    T-123456 2nd Lieutant THINKER

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    Do you think my government never thought of that?
     
  9. Dagger

    Dagger 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Thanks for your answer. Very Good Perspective.

    Some points
    I really dont get the idea that a democracy which includes both Sunnis and Shias of Iraq is possible in the first place, considering the level of radicalisation. After a certain degree of radicalisation in the general populace mixed with illiteracy, no way to talk through it. If one sect sits for talks , some others blow up and you are back to square one.
    An insurgency as unprecedented as ISIS getting sustained, cannot be done without the tacit support of atleast some major % of the population.
    I cant really buy the argument that some section did not get their democratic rights , so they went full ISIS - They would have gone ISIS whatever rights you give them. A dictatorial rule till a certain deradicalisation and education was the solution.

    Second, I am finding it really difficult to believe that the CIA accused in the first place with just the satellite maps. Remembering it was Putin who first exposed the Trucks of oil, At one point of time both CIA and Russia were accusing turkey. I just believe US was making up with Turkey - as your second link indicates.

    Third, Considering recent atttacks and the support to Erdogan by the islamists, and recent news ,vociferous support for the jailings - There is a section of the population radicalised enough and ISIS is growing in strength using this ground support in Turkey. This is surely going to go south fast unless action is taken soon. Before they have the power to strike anywhere and everybody shuts up. and the only loud voice is the extremist.
    I say this because, everybody who deals with the GCC - gets bitten with this ideology and the journey to hell begins (Syria Pak Egypt).


    I also read forums where some Turkish people started shouting, US and a CIA-Gulen conspiracy for the attack. I am aware of the basic accusation. But does everybody in Turkey belive this? or is there a sharp divide which believes that this is just an excuse for tyrannical moves. Are the anti Gulen types (also the type against US action in middle east) a majority?
    What are your thoughts on Gulen?

    Incidentally, very curious that these same ones, who accuse US as killing people in the middle east, also call for the blood of the Assad regime, who the US is acting against. IF anything they should be supporting the US.

    Finally, I am sorry for the recent trouble your country has been having. Hope you people of Turkey can hold it together and tide over.
     
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  10. T-123456

    T-123456 2nd Lieutant THINKER

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    For it to end you need a dictator with absolute power who can force the people to accept each other as is,if not,set some examples,execute the leaders.
    Some people just cannot live under a democracy(mostly Arabs,im not a racist,its just a fact).
    It has nothing to do with democratic rights,it has more to do with ''living'' rights,many Sunnis got slaughtered by Shias just for being Sunni,even Christians,i have a Christian Iraqi friend from Bagdad here in the Netherlands,they killed his father brothers sisters for just being Christian,if you would listen to the stories.
    What Saddam did to the Shias and Kurds,they are doing back.
    People dont become an ISIS member over night.
    Why would a Sunni general served under Saddam(modern) for decades suddenly become an ISIS member,you really think he had sympathy for the worst Sharia Law rule in history?
    There had to be another plausible reason which i gave you.
    In the US,(you wont believe this but it is what it is) the Pentagon and the CIA picked different sides in the Iraq Syria mess,it is so complicated to explain that it would take years.
    In short,
    The CIA an Obama - YPG,Iraqi government,Iran(with all of the Shia militias)
    The Pentagon - Turkiye,KRG(Peshmerga),FSA an the GCC
    There has never been an oil trade between Turkiye and ISIS,it was a Russian/Syrian businessman who did the trade but thats another story.
    Russia accusing my country came after the shooting down of the Russian SU-24 of the Russian Airforce,when relations between both countries were at its lowest point,if this trade was going on,why not come up with it before?
    The same goes for the CIA,after losing its grip on Erdogan(both Erdogan and Gulen worked for the CIA),they were both from the same gang but Erdogan rebelled and faced the consquences,media war against my country,terrorist attacks,keeping the YPG west of the Euphrates river while promising to move them to the east of the river.not supporting the zafe-zone,working against Turkish interests etc..
    Cia and Russia both accusing Erdogan means:''enemy of my enemy............''
    Yeah,you can forget about that ever happening to my country,we are no Arabs(no offence),maybe 4/5% in my country are extremist but they will never turn my country into an extremist sh!thole,we would never allow that.
    I know it will sound cocky but we are Turks,we have never been slaves to nobody and will never be.
    50% of the people believe it because the CIA had a hand in every coup attempt(all succeeded accept the last one) in my country,think of the coups in South America(all CIA planned and executed),thats why people believe it was the CIA.
    About 25% believe its an excuse to get absolute power.
    If the CIA does a coup attempt,it always succeeds,every time and its done by the whole Army,not some unimportant generals and colonels,a couple of tanks and some conscripts who were just following orders(some were lynched by Erdogans scum).
    90% is anti Gulen but they all wanted action from the US against Assad because of the refugees an the 300k dead people.
    Gulen is a mart guy using religion and education to gain power in every country where he is represented,Erdogan is what he is because of Gulen,Gulen helped him to power,for me they are both traitors to the Turkish people identity and country.
    I would have hanged them both but first cut them to pieces(make sure they stay alive),salt and pepper,grill and then feed them to the rats but i dont think i would be satisfied yet.
    There you are wrong,if Obama held his words on the ''red lines'' and go in with the allies,Assad would either be killed or ran out of the country in a week,there was no Russia then.
    So,the US is not acting against Assad.
    Think about this,
    If the US wants it,Assad is history,so why didnt Obama finish Assad?
    The days of ''good USA'' are over in the Muslim world,Obama is the worst president ever for the USs image.maybe Trump will change that.
    Thank you,we are used to it,we'll get over it somehow.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2016
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  11. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    No, I think your Government never insisted on it enough in order to remain on good terms with the Gulf countries. It's time someone in the Muslim world called their bluff.
     
  12. venureddy

    venureddy Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    OFFICIALLY!!! they would never acknowledge their support for terrorists bro. i agree that Obama was spineless. you are correct about their breeding though. i dont think that democracy is possible under these circumstances in nations like iraq. the power struggle between sunnis and shias wont end any time soon and the problem with that they don't know how to peacefully co-exist as their barbaric instincts have stuck around with them and there is no such thing as peaceful co-existence in islam.
     
  13. T-123456

    T-123456 2nd Lieutant THINKER

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    Why not?
    Turkiye,Indonesia,Azerbaijan,Malaysia,Morocco,Albania,Turkmenistan,Kazakhistan are some examples where not only Muslims live in co-existence but other faiths to.
     
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  14. venureddy

    venureddy Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    those are not ruled by extremist sympathizers( i doubt turkey comes under that list). even muslims in India are also fine with other religions.
    Indonesia-99% Sunnis
    Azerbaijan-85% shia
    Malaysian muslims are mostly Sunnis
    Morocco-99% Sunnis
    Albania-Sunnis majority with little shia population
    Turkmenistan- mostly Sunnis
    Kazakhstan-mostly Sunnis.
    most of the above countries population follows either Sunni or shia and they are inherently non extremist countries and most important of all free from western and arabic influence which plays a huge role. Iraq has one of the most stable governments under saddam hussein and so does syria until western and arab nations started to support insurgency.
    go and ask any Iraqi or Syrian why they are in this position now and they will tell you why.
    well Turkey isn't as stable as one might think. there is a military coup recently and no one knows when another coup might take place and god knows how many people are loyal to erdogan after all this mess.
    And BTW its TURKEY not Turkiye. its embarrassing when you misspell your own countries name.
     
  15. T-123456

    T-123456 2nd Lieutant THINKER

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    Use your brain before making such a comment,the name of my country is Türkiye to be exact so,dont tell me what to call my country.
    On every forum i write the real name Türkiye and not what the english speaking countries call it,got it???
    Isnt it ambarrasing that you didnt get why i always write Türkiye ?

    To topic,what kind of answer was that to this comment of yours ''there is no such thing as peaceful co-existence in islam''?
    You didnt name specific countries but the religion,we call that contradiction.
    Why dont you just say;the Arab world?
     
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