Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

Top Five Japanese Weapons on which India could like to get it hands on

Discussion in 'International Relations' started by lca-fan, May 11, 2017.

  1. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2015
    Messages:
    2,388
    Likes Received:
    4,777
    Country Flag:
    India
  2. Fox

    Fox Supreme Overlord FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    Messages:
    314
    Likes Received:
    919
    Country Flag:
    Norway
    The P-1 is nice and all, but last I checked India already had this:

    [​IMG]

    The P-1 serves the same function as a long-range patrol/intelligence platform. Buying both just increases supply side costs and risks. It's not a bad air-frame though, just redundant.

    Type 10? Eh. Probably not. Maybe some of the technology, but India has alternatives and the Type 10 was designed to support Japanese doctrine, not India's. It's got some fancy tech such as variable suspension and lightweight armor, but I'm not sure how well they'd translate over to India's circumstance. The Type 10 was designed to support Japan's defensive doctrine, not offensive thrusts.

    [​IMG]

    X-2? Again, maybe the technology but India has its own developmental stealth programs to work with. A partnership could do wonders for both sides though. But let's remember that the X-2 itself is still just a developmental program and might lead to a new air-frame altogether. We don't yet know the trajectory. That's why I feel it'd be better for form a tie-up with Japanese defense firms rather then outright invest in that program, then again, the article noted the same.

    [​IMG]

    Izumo and Soryu, yeah those are actually needs of the IN and are already established and credible designs. Not sure if that's the direction the IN would want to go with its own designs upcoming or in development, but they offer an alternative path forward.

    [​IMG]

    The small size of the XASM-3 could offer a nice compliment to the larger Brahmos and fill the gap between it and Harpoon, so it's at least worth a look. Of course a smaller Brahmos would fill the same niche'.

    [​IMG]

    Overall I don't see half of those being genuine interests of the Indian Armed Forces due to either domestic alternatives, different paths, or a lack of necessity.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
    Wolfpack, dray, Bregs and 3 others like this.
  3. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,206
    Likes Received:
    6,307
    We don't have a need for Type 10, we will have mastered MBT tech by ourselves before this decade is out. We already operate the P-8, so we don't need the P-1. As for X-2, it will be way too expensive as compared to what our industry can deliver, and we need assistance from a design bureau with proven capabilities, the Japanese don't have proven capabilities in this field.

    Only Izumo and Soryu are possibilities.
     
  4. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    2,591
    Likes Received:
    4,845
    Country Flag:
    India
    Non of the 5 qualify our needs.
     
    Hellfire likes this.
  5. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    4,902
    Country Flag:
    India
    None of them are required or envisaged for Indian requirements.
     
    Ankit Kumar 001 likes this.
  6. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,667
    Likes Received:
    3,454
    Actually they all qualify in a way.

    IN has the requirement for additional MPA's, but reports suggested a smaller / more cost-effective version to complement P8I, but P1 is an MPA.

    Tpye 10 should fall in the weight class of FMBT or?

    X2 fits AMCA

    Soryu fits P75I

    Izomo with a well deck and the right size, can fit the LPD tender

    Even the F2 would fit the single engine MMRCA tender.


    But since we don't even get the US2 deal cleared, we can forget any useful tech transfer and cooperation.
     
  7. bharathp

    bharathp Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2016
    Messages:
    746
    Likes Received:
    1,401
    Country Flag:
    India
    JVs with tech transfer.. even better would be hire their robotics tech masters and get our lazy a** LCA manufacturing off the roof..

    possible fun exchange when a Japanese manufacturer visits the LCA manufacturing location:

    Jap guy: why is that machine so slow?
    Irritated but egoist Indian guy: careful buddy - its a buddhist machine - its meditating.
     
    kiduva21 and Schwifty like this.
  8. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    2,591
    Likes Received:
    4,845
    Country Flag:
    India
    The P1 is not smaller than P8. The need for additional MPAs are to fill the gap between Do228 and P8I, and needs a aircraft like c295MPA. Further there is no proof of P1 being more cheaper than P8. Rather its a opposite case, where it lost to P8A in UK. The P1 is a fine system, but just not for us. Had it come a few years earlier, maybe it stood a chance. Not now.

    The FMBT is not about licence building a foreign MBT by a private company.Its about development of an Indian MBT by Private entities with support from foreign vendors. And in this , Type 10 offers us nothing , may be its armour, but that's the reason why Type 10 is so costly.

    And cost is also a reason why IA is buying more and more T90, over Arjun.

    X2 is just a prototype, and cannot be a AMCA. The design and specifications of AMCA are frozen. Yes , but the Japanese companies can take part to be a partner in development of AMCA, but not sell X2 as AMCA.

    Long Range Land Attack Cruise Missiles either through VLS or through torpedo tubes is an absolute necessity, in P75I. Until Soryu has it, its not good enough for us.

    Izumu in its present avatar is not needed. And the LPD competition is way ahead now , proven Mistrals vs Juan Carlos Type. Until Japanese get a private shipyard to tie up, and then convince the MoD that their offer fulfills the requirements, and they are ready to build all the ships in India and at a lower cost , they cannot enter the program now.

    But even for F2 , its LM holding the keys. Its upon LM to decide what they want to offer.

    The US2 is not happening, and its good. There are other more pressing needs. US2 is more of a luxury.
     
    Sancho and ni8mare like this.
  9. Luttapi

    Luttapi 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 2, 2017
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    126
    Country Flag:
    India
    Soryu submarines can dive to depths of 900 metres. That is huge difference compared to 400 metres of other submarines. But the Japanese don't do technology transfer. So no use. Pakistan will start manufacturing Chinese submarines in a few years. We need a submarine with technology transfer.
     
  10. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    2,591
    Likes Received:
    4,845
    Country Flag:
    India
    I would love to know the source you are quoting here.
     
  11. Luttapi

    Luttapi 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 2, 2017
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    126
    Country Flag:
    India
    TOP SECRET
     
    Ankit Kumar 001 likes this.
  12. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    2,591
    Likes Received:
    4,845
    Country Flag:
    India
    Well even the SSBNs and Akulas don't usually go beyond 450 meters.

    And inside a submarine , you need to maintain 1 Atmospheric pressure for the crew. You cannot increase the pressure to balance out the pressure of ocean on the submarine.

    Usually with every 10 meters , you add 1 Atmosphere of pressure more. [Mind it, it's a lot of pressure. ]

    So at 900 Meters, it would be 90 atmospheres, its a lot.

    That is the Crush Depth of most modern SSBNs and SSNs.

    And usually the maximum test depth is kept at 2/3rd of the Crushing Depth.

    And usually the submarines are kept ~50-100 Meters above than its Maximum test depth in real operations for safety.

    When you say that a submarine has 900 Meters of operating depth , you are implying around 1,400 Meters of Crush Depth.

    That's impossible, that's the operating depth of Unmanned Deep Submergence Vehicles.

    I would thereby request you to re check your source.



    @PARIKRAMA @Sancho
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
    PARIKRAMA likes this.
  13. Fox

    Fox Supreme Overlord FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    Messages:
    314
    Likes Received:
    919
    Country Flag:
    Norway
    http://news.searchina.net/id/1606093?page=1

    ^This is the only source I could find to support that claim... it's unreliable and sensationalist.
     
    PARIKRAMA and Ankit Kumar 001 like this.
  14. Luttapi

    Luttapi 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 2, 2017
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    126
    Country Flag:
    India
    Soryu submarines are built based on older Oyashio class submarines and has a range of 6100 nautical miles and can dive to a maximum of 2952 feet. It can travel 13 knots surfaced and 20 knots submerged. The diesel engine is Kawasaki. This is general knowledge sir. The Chinese have a huge respect for the Japanese submarines.
     
  15. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    2,591
    Likes Received:
    4,845
    Country Flag:
    India
    Rest all GK is fine.

    But "2952 feet" is not so general.
    Again I believe you that its GK.

    But if its GK show me atleast 3 sources quoting its "Maximum Test Depth" to be 900 meters.

    Soryu has a max Test Depth of 450 meters and a operational maximum depth of 300-350 meters according to what I have read.
     
    Luttapi likes this.

Share This Page