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Trainer aircrafts of IAF - PC-7, HTT-40, HTT-36 Sitara, BAE Hawk

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by R!CK, Dec 24, 2016.

  1. Guynextdoor

    Guynextdoor Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    My Prediction- LCA Trainer will be modified into an AJT for advanced stage pilot training. Eventually all classes of trainers- basic, intermediate and advanced will be produced locally.
     
  2. Guynextdoor

    Guynextdoor Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    I think a local trainer will replace the hawk because of cost issues and 'evergreen' nature of the requirement.
     
  3. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    LCA can/will be used as LIFT Aircraft
     
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  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    They didn't, but because of HALs failure to develop the IJT, the basic trainer requirement gets widened. IAF still wants additional PC7, but is ok with HTT40 and additional Hawks, rather than searching for an IJT alternative. So one failure justified the life of the other HAL trainer.

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...for-pilots-arup-raha/articleshow/49207462.cms
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
  5. Guynextdoor

    Guynextdoor Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    I don't think IJT and Hawk (AJT) are in the same category.
     
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  6. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Of course not, but IAF now wants to move away from the basic / intermediate / advanced trainer mix, to a broader basic / advanced mix, since IJT is not available.
    As former Air Chief Raha said, the PC7 can cover parts of the IJT training, which means the basic training will see some overlapping.

     
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
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  7. defc0n

    defc0n 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Prashant Singh Bhadoria is angry and exuberant at the same time. The 34-year-old engineer, who did his engineering in electronics from Nanded, Maharashtra, works as a deputy manager of a team in Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, which is developing HTT-40 (Hindustan Turbo Trainer), a small aircraft being developed specifically for training purposes.



    While the Indian Air Force has decided to import PC-7 aircraft made by Swiss firm Pilatus Aircraft, Bhadoria isn’t too pleased. The HTT-40 is a far superior aircraft and according to him, it can deliver 40 hours of flying for the same cost an F-16 or MiG- 29 will deliver in just one hour – which kind of explains why the plane gets the number in its name.



    “When we are talking about developing fifth generation aircraft in this country, it is sad we have to import a trainer aircraft from a foreign country. After over 60 years of Independence, do we have to show our power by importing a trainer craft,” he asked.



    The HTT-40, he said, also has an unusual quality for a training aircraft. It can strap up guns and bombs and get into combat mode when there is a need for one. “It can fly up to 600 kmph and reach an altitude of 6 km,” he added.



    The young engineer is visibly charged. “We can test the craft by 2015 and go into production mode two years from there.”



    The PC-7 costs approximately Rs 37 crore (order for 75 aircraft at $520 million) each while the HTT-40 is estimated to cost Rs 33 crore. The IAF took delivery of 2 PC-7s earlier this week.



    He did his Masters in Science from Cranfield University in the UK and topped his class.



    It must be a no-brainer to assume a bright engineer like Bhadoria would cherry-pick his job in the US or Europe with some of the best aircraft makers who would pay a king’s ransom as salary. “Absolutely not. I come from a place like Nanded and HAL gave me an identity by sending me to the UK for my Masters. I will continue to work for this organisation for the rest of my life,” he said.





    ‘Overhaul defence procurement’

    Meanwhile, Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne made it aptly clear at the second day of the Aero India seminar on Tuesday about the need for some serious re-haul in the way Indian defence establishment deals with procurements. He said there should be penalty imposed for poor performance either in the form of withholding of payments or recovering money already paid. Targeting HAL and DRDO without mentioning them directly, he suggested a mechanism of dual assessment of both our production and design agencies to avoid problems in the future.

    http://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com/bangalore/others//articleshow/21235150.cms
     
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  8. Anish

    Anish BANNED BANNED

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    An old news?

    IAF should be able to sue HAL for the multi decade delay in delivery of Tejas.
    Nak Browne was an asset.

    Fast forward to 2017 HTT 40 is still nowhere in sight.

    Wonder what Bhadoria says now
     
  9. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    HAL IJT equivalent. For those who says the concept is outdated.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
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  10. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Project was sanctioned in aug 2013 with 5 year development time. First flight was ahead of schedule.

    Two prototypes already flying and stall and spin test also started.

    Program is fully funded by HAL because of lack of support from IAF.

    Cheapest in the category.

    Ready fullfil commited 74 numbers by 2021.

    What else you want?

     
  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Sounds nice and could be good PR for the aircraft, but we should not hide the other side either.

    IAF pilots were dying in HALs old trainers and the complete training schedule had to be stopped! HTT 40 was still on paper when IAF needed new reliable trainers and THAT's why they went for importing once!

    Also their decision not to support HTT40 was more than reasonable, since they already got the first PC7s by the time and planned with the IJT in the medium term.
    Adding a 2nd basic trainer and a 4th type of training aircraft, would had unnecessarily complicated operations and increased costs.

    The only reason why HTT40 now comes back into IAFs preference again, is HALs failure to develop IJT.

    So it doesn't matter how good, or costeffective HTT40 might be at the end when it will be fully developed, but that it wasn't available, when IAF actually needed it and no pride for an indigenous product, justifies the losses of that many pilots.
     
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  12. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    My problem is with blaming HAL for everything. HAL can only develop a aircraft when IAF shows the requirement. During 90s HAL approached IAF for new basic and advanced trainer development. It was IAFs short-sightedness which brought us to this situation.
     
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  13. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    That's true, IAF should had started to plan for replacements earlier, but the reliability issue of the older trainers and the poor development of IJT did not help HAL to convince IAF in their favour either.
    If HAL wants to be taken seriously, they have to step up their game on timely delivery and reliability of the products. Today with a government in full support of privat players, even more than before!
    I just pointed out, that there were good reasons to go for imported trainers instead and also for not taking 2 basic trainers.
     
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  14. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    With the current government even if trainer was successful , there is a chance they would have bought Pilatus MII anyways ...:smoking1:


    On serious note, form now onwards there will be savings on basic trainer for eternity .
     
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  15. bharathp

    bharathp Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    not true, just like other areas, the basic trainer also will keep getting more "modern". and if the folks at our DPSUs dont keep up with the advancements, we might have to order basic trainers in the future too.

    in one sentence - dont do the same mistake as you did with HF-Marut. keep the research and dev going on.
     
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